Correlation between developer strength, time, and grain

There is lots of great information in tris thread, thank you all!

Alex Benjamin said:

Just to be precise: do you mean more coffee but the same amount of sodium carbonate and vitamin C?

If so, you've probably got your answer. By changing the amount of sodium carbonate or vitamin C (ascorbic acid), you make the solution more alkaline (changing the pH). As I mentioned above, a change in the pH level can have strong effects on some developing agents, which, in return, can have an effect on the size of the grain. Probably is the case with caffeic acid.

That said, as momus mentioned, scanning isn't the best way to judge grain. Best would be to compare your two negatives on a lightbox with a loupe.

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I used more of everything really.

Alex Benjamin said:

OP obviously enjoys using caffenol. Moreover, OP is not asking whether or not there is a finer-grain developer out there—for all we know, he has already done all the experiments he needs with Xtol, D-76, Rodinal, etc.—but is asking why, scientifically speaking, he's getting larger grain with a different dilution.

OP can correct me if I'm misreading him, but I find it curious that so many are telling him to use a different developer to get finer grain when that doesn't seem to be what he's enquiring about.

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You read it correctly. It was a general question on dilution of developers and grain. I’ve tried other developers with Fomapan 400, and the results are usually pretty grainy. Not always in a bad way. What I haven’t tried is other film in Caffenol, but I have a bulk roll of Agfaphoto APX 400 that should get here tomorrow.

Sirius Glass said:

The OP needs a real developer, not he left over coffee.

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Oh, I have others. I just like the idea of having the option of a developer that’s always ready. One that I can buy in the local supermarket instead of ordering from the internet and wait a week for.

Alex Benjamin said:

By the way, cerber0s, you did not say which recipe of caffenol you are using.

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The stronger recipe was 500ml of water, 50ml soda, 80ml coffee, and 5ml iodized salt. Develop for 15 minutes.

”My” recipe is 500ml of water, 15ml soda, 50ml coffee, and 2.5ml iodized salt.

At this point I just enjoy the process of finding out what Caffenol can do. You guys also got me interested in trying Rodinal.

The attached photo was an experiment to see if I could push the film (I know Fomapan 400 isn’t supposed to push well), and I guess I could. It was pushed to 1600 using the weaker solution, and as you can see it’s pretty darn grainy. The grain here is a lot more pleasing to me than the grain I got using the stronger version, where the grain looked large and ugly to me, even at box speed.

Happy NewYear!