Correct lighting settings or I failed at Sunny 16

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tehabe

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I got my Minolta srT-303b back from the workshop and the body works fine and I tried to apply the Sunny 16 rule and most of the time the light meter of the srT-303b agreed with my settings but the photos are very dark and grainy. There are multiple things which could have caused this:
  • I'm just bad at judging light and so is the light meter
  • The used film (Kodak UltraMax) lied to me and wasn't really ISO 400
  • The lens also needs a repair
  • [This reason was removed and might be found in the hybrid section of this forum]
I might add that at some photos I must have misdjudged the light or must have forgotten to change the aperture before pressing the shutter. But most of the time it was the other way around, e.g. I thought I set the aperture to 8 when I should have used 11.
 

wiltw

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Sunny 16 is pretty good in true 'bright sun' but there are reasons for the atmosphere to not admit as much light...high altitude smoke from forest fires are one reason.
In testing Sunny 16 on multiple occassion, much of the time Sunny 16 is accurate enought. But I also have measured occasions where the proper exposure is as much as +1EV compared to the Sunny 16 rule of thumb.
 
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cramej

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Samples would greatly help in troubleshooting here.
 
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tehabe

tehabe

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Maybe the sun reaches Northern Germany even in bright daylight only well enough for f/11 not f/16?
 
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tehabe

tehabe

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This was certainly not the correct setting:

2021-08-20-0009.jpg


Here I think I got closer to a better setting but I don't think it is perfect either.

2021-08-20-0021.jpg
 

cramej

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Maybe the sun reaches Northern Germany even in bright daylight only well enough for f/11 not f/16?

Probably.

Looks like it was overcast as well. That takes away another stop or more so you could be approaching 1/250 at f/8 or even 5.6.
 

Nicholas Lindan

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In this case the rule is "Cloudy 5.6"; on a cloudy day between tea time and Abendessen try "Cloudy 4.0 - 2.8".

"Sunny 16" is for cloudless summer days between the hours of 10:00 and 16:00 with the sun over your shoulder - just about the worst lighting conditions for taking a picture. If you have people in the photo they will be squinting at the camera with all sorts of unflattering hard shadows. And shadow detail, well there is no point worrying about it; there won't be any because shadows will all be a dead black.
 

faberryman

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What battery are you using in your ST-303b? I believe it takes the 1.35V mercury battery which is no longer available. If you are using a 1.5V battery in it, the light meter will not be accurate.
 
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removed account4

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I've always been told that sunny 11 is more accurate.
and I always err on the side of extra exposure...
don't forget to have fun :smile:
John
 

Chan Tran

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Can you just scan the neg brighter and see if there is details in the shadow. I think there is and thus your exposure is OK.
 

mshchem

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In bright sunlight you will have distinct shadows. There's no shadows to speak of in either photo. Yep, you are 3 stops underexposed minimum. The rule I use is sunny 16. On a nice sunny day, in open shade I open up 4 stops. This looks to be pretty much overcast. Buy a nice used Minolta auto meter IV F to go with your camera.
 

Vaughn

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This nice little German guide found on my Roleiflex will show you how to deviate from the sunny 16 rule under various sky conditions and time of day.
 

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dynachrome

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A few things:

The meter in your camera is a very useful tool. If the camera is working properly you should not need to resort to "sunny 16" or any other hack. My repairman converts SRT cameras to 1.5 volts. Find out whether yours has.

Your photos show backlighting. This is a common problems for beginners. Tilt the camera down and take your meter reading with no sky in the finder. Then tilt the camera back up, compose, focus and shoot. Light meters are calibrated for 18% gray. If you meter off of a subject which is bright, like snow or sky, you will get snow or sky which is too dark. Understanding where to point your camera when metering will greatly improve your results.
Color print films are very sensitive to underexposure. When they are underexposed, they give thin negatives, which produce muddy grainy prints. The Kodak Hold 400 is particularly bad when underexposed even a little. Portra 400 is better in this regard and has much better sharpness and finer grain. I might try Gold 400 if it were available in 120 size but for 35mm use, the 400 speed color print film I use is Portra. Use it and enjoy it.
 

wiltw

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I see no 'backlighting', in fact I see no evidence of sun...no distinct edge shadows cast by person in shot 2 of post #5. If you readi the Sunny 15 article and charts that I linked, it mentions
"Heavy overcast... No shadows... f/5.6", or what the conditions were in shot 2 post #5.
 
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MattKing

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A guide for exposing Kodacolor II (ASA 80)
d47add4fdbb0e2c36a7e388afc1f8719.jpg
 

mshchem

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I carry a piece of backing paper, Kodak printed this on every roll of Verichrome backing paper. Kodak pocket guides are invaluable work great.
 

Down Under

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A guide for exposing Kodacolor II (ASA 80)
d47add4fdbb0e2c36a7e388afc1f8719.jpg

Geegollygosh, this brings back so many memories... I used those wonderful little 'papers' Kodak put into all its 120 roll film boxes in those long ago days, and they seemed to mostly work. My Kodacolor negatives from the '60s are now mostly blank squares, but I recall those settings gave me pretty much ideal exposure. I shot color back then for portraits and weddings, so it was important for me to get it all right or else those French Canadian bridezillas would have had my scalp for a carpet... and here I am, alive and well to tell the tale, so!!

As for the Rolleiflex exposure guide on the backs of every Rollei TLR ever made from 1950 on (*), they also ae amazingly accurate - but then these are German calculated, which needs no explanation.

(*) ...also possibly even TLRs made before 1950. My apologies to the older Rolleis if this is the case.

OP... I suggest you shoot another roll of color neg film in your wonderful old Minolta SRT - I had a 101 and it gave me some truly amazing negatives and slides in its day (1970s) - in bright sun, using a range of exposures starting with the classic Sunny 16 setting, that is to say film speed @ f/16, and then vary two stops each way. Your processed negatives will have their own stories to tell and you can then figure out what is what and what is wrong, if anything, with your camera. I for one believe your first roll of exposures may have been a fluke.

Please post after the event, and let us know what your results are. Best of.
 

beemermark

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I don't see anything wrong with either picture. Ones a little too dark and ones a little too light. You need to know what your meter is metering. Know what your camera meter sees and then aim the camera at something that gives the "middle" shade you want. Often in landscapes you need to point the camera down to exclude most of the sky (which gives a false reading). Forget the sunny 16 rule and use the camera meter intelligently.
 

gone

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Film is expensive, and photos that are not exposed correctly are just a waste of money and time for you. I'd buy a good handheld light meter, or find someone w/ a camera that exposed correctly and compare meter readings. Many years ago I bought an inexpensive shutter tester on eBay that works w/ some free software you can download. That tester saved a lot of shots for me, because I knew at exactly what speed my shutter was running at on the different settings.
 

MattKing

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Those little slips of paper used to be packaged with or imprinted inside the boxes for 35mm film too.
As has been posted above, the trick is to recognize how the shadows look.
In my case, many of my formative years were spent using mostly Kodachrome in a camera with Sunny 16/that table built into the camera - a non-metered Retina S1.
upload_2021-8-21_10-28-17.png
 

RLangham

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I live in the American South, where on occasion the summer noonday sun can be up to two stops brighter than exposure suggested by the sunny sixteen rule. In such conditions you hope you can put the sun behind you and that your camera has shutter speeds above 1/500th and apertures above f/22, in order to retain any semblance of control over your depth of field/action freeze/motion blur.

Sunny sixteen is a bad approximation in many cases. It's designed for temperate sunlight in middle latitudes under sunny but-not-cloudless conditions. Even as a starting point it's not always accurate. Sometimes it overexposes for me in summer conditions, but it also readily underexposes in even slight shadow.

If I have the shutter speed set according to sunny 16 (i.e., the closest number to the film speed) I will open up to f/8 at the slightest hint of my main subject being in shadow, and so on.

My recommendation is to look at the scene you want to photograph and compare the apparent brightness of various areas in the frame to the brightness of the blue sky near the horizon or otherwise away from the sun. Decide what you want to have perfectly exposed, what you want to be dark and what you want to be blown out, and using the brightness of the sky = sunny 16, choose a setting that you think will achieve the best compromise from that, then fix the picture's dynamic range later by your chosen method of film editing.

This is in principle how Ansel Adams would shoot and make prints in times when he did not own a spotmeter, with the principle exception that rather than relying on one point of reference (the blue sky) he knew the absolute luminance of many objects under many lighting conditions, and knew how his film would respond to each successive stop of over or under exposure, something he formalized as the zone system. He even knew the exposure for the full moon in a black sky, and once calculated the exposure for a Pueblo village by moonlight using only that as a reference.

I am a bit puzzled by your camera. I am a longtime fan of the SR-T's, and I believe that your camera is designed to compensate for bright skies by weighting the lower half of the image more if the upper half is above a certain brightness threshold. This is referred to by Minolta as Contrast Light Control or something like that. There are debates about how it actually works but I believe I have seen it in practice. Ah, no matter. Did you try compensating the film speed setting to account for the fact that your battery may be putting put a little too much voltage?

I would say SR-T's underexpose about a stop on a fresh alkali battery, then after a while begin to expose correctly before overexposing for a brief period as the battery dies. Nikkormats were a bit more temperamental to me, and Canonets and Pentax Spotmatics seemed designed to compensate, but I would say an SR-T only needs to be compensated to the next lower normal film speed (i.e. 400 -> 200 ASA). I don't know what that is in DIN but you may have a DIN chart on the back of your camera, as all of my SR-T's have had.

Better luck next time!
 
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