'Cord Xenar vs 'Flex Xenotar

Alan9940 · Apr 16, 2016

Seeking insight from the Rollei TLR users lurking about on this board...

I currently own a Rolleicord Vb Type 2 which has the 75mm Xenar lens. I'm thinking about buying a Rolleiflex 3.5E Type 2 with the 75mm Xenotar lens and was wondering how these two lenses compare? Since I typically shoot outdoor scenes with the lens stopped down to f/8 - f/16, will the Xenotar reveal better sharpness, contrast, etc? I should mention that I rarely print beyond about 10x13" so I'm wondering if any noticeable difference at that size or smaller?

Thank you for any help provided.

Dan Daniel · Apr 16, 2016

Oh geez, you're going to get confused on this one!! Still.... this is my basic use, either a Xenar or a Xenotar.

I would say that yes, there is a difference in rendering. The Xenar is 'smoother,' the Xenotar is 'crisper.' I see it in what might be called local contrast? The Xenotar can have a snap and crispness in how it renders an object. The Xenar won't have the same local snap. If I had a couple of prints in fornt of me I could point out the differences, but on the internet they will be lost.

So, that last comment should be noted- on the internet you'd be hard pressed to tell them apart. By the time you account for light, processing, etc., both lenses will be good and will stand up next to the other, in prints or on the internet.

What is making you think about a new camera?

BrianShaw · Apr 16, 2016

Dans words reflect my experience also

Alan9940 · Apr 16, 2016

Dan Daniel said:
What is making you think about a new camera?

Hello Dan,

A few things that are attracting me to the 3.5E 'Flex is: 1) the auto shutter cocking, 2) the separate wheels to adjust aperture and shutter speed (I don't shoot via EV so the always locked "push in" to change design of the 'Cord is a bit of a pain IMO), and 3) though I have no concrete evidence and haven't seen it for myself (dangerous territory here!), I suspect (as you intimated to) that a Planar or Xenotar lens of a 'Flex would "draw" better than the 'Cord Xenar. Since I shoot outdoor scenes that generally includes fine detail, the increased micro-contrast and/or more precise rendering of the Xenotar lens certainly is of interest to me.

Finally, and this is really waxing into that area of arbitrariness, I like and enjoy using precision instruments; my Leica M's being one example. Never owned a 'Flex, but based on what I've read those cameras are just more "refined" than the 'Cord. Please understand...not trying to start any debate about 'Flex vs 'Cord quality...simply trying to quantify something that may not be easily defined.

Thank you.

shutterfinger · Apr 16, 2016

Xenar is a Schneider trade name for a Tessar type lens. The refinement will depend on the vintage. How well it preforms will depend largely on how it has been treated over the years. It is regarded as a high quality lens.
Xenotar is a Schneider trade name for a Gauss type lens. The refinement will depend on the vintage. How well it preforms will depend largely on how it has been treated over the years. It is a high quality design.
Study the differences in Tessar and Gauss designs.

Dan Daniel · Apr 16, 2016

OK, AlanH, get a 'Flex then. Everything you say makes sense to me. The ergonomics on a 'Flex are better. The quality of construction is better. Dang, the SHUTTER RELEASE is so much nicer than a 'Cord. It's simply a nicer experience to use in my opinion. Probably one of the best examples of industrial age machine work and mechanics you can own. You'll know it right away.

Suggestion- there's a nice soft release button made by Match Technical. It's the small one, a soft bump on this page-
http://www.matchtechnical.com/Pages/Beep.aspx
I think it's what they call a Bip, but it comes in various patterns that get different names. The large one won't fit but the small one does. Your finger will sit nicely on it, and its curve without an edge or knurling allows for a variety of finger positions. The shutter release on a 'Flex is a different thing than on a Leica; a soft release does nothing for me on a Leica but on the 'Flex it makes life nice.

Ian Grant · Apr 16, 2016

I have and use a Rolleiflex 3.5E2 with a Xenotar it's a great lens, I also have an Automat with an Opton Tessar and use a Yashicamat 124 with a similar Tessar type Yashinon. Somewhere in between in terms of quality is the superb Ross Xpres on my Mirocord II

Yes the Xenotar (or he Planar) is marginally better at wider apertures, that's why they were more expensive when new, however used carefully Tessar & type lenses are very capable I use quite a few

Ian

Fixcinater · Apr 16, 2016

I'd say try it. You won't know if you like the differences until you do and if you don't have to sell the 'Cord to afford the 'Flex, you can always go back.

I prefer the 'Flex way of working. I usually screw up a frame on each roll I put through the 'Cord.

btaylor · Apr 16, 2016

I have both. So should you! To me, I can't see a difference in the optics, I usually shoot f8 or higher. But the 2 cameras handle very differently. The flex is faster to operate with the combined shutter cocking/winding. The flex viewfinder has a handy sports finder focusing feature. BUT the cord is noticeably lighter so easier to carry. If you can't afford to keep both, just sell the one you find yourself using less. But I think you deserve both.

NortheastPhotographic · Apr 21, 2016

The short answer is that at those apertures/enlargements you won't see much of a difference. There are other reasons to get an E2 though, prisms are great with the Rollei for portraits at eye level.

piu58 · Apr 22, 2016

Xenar ist from Tessar type, Xenotar is planar (Gauss) type.

You won'f see any difference in image quality if you stop down to f/8 and further. If you open the Tessar/Xenar to f/6.3 the corners start getting soft. This can only be seen in special subjects like brickwork. As a rough guess, the Planar gives you one stop more with the same level of sharpness. DOF will be reduced of course.

I had a Cord Vb (Tessar) and have a Flex 3,5F (Planar). My experiences came from these lenses. But the Schneider lenses are said to be equivalent at least.

Alan9940 · Apr 22, 2016

Thank you all for your input. Since the Vb is probably a better camera than I am a photographer, I think I'll suppress the GAS and just go out and make pictures!

baachitraka · Apr 22, 2016

You may appreciate how a clean 'triotar' lens in Rolleicord can render the portraits and as well as the landscapes to some extent.

At 10inch enlargement you may never notice any difference but auto cocking the shutter may be an Advantage if you are shooting fast on the street.

* If you have lot of cash buy lots of paper and learn different printing techniques.

'Cord Xenar vs 'Flex Xenotar

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