copying lumen prints

[Wayne]

Since I can't fix the little bastards and preserve their exquisite colors I want to make color negatives of some lumen prints so I can preserve and maybe enlarge them. I've done it with anthotypes but those were on special paper that laid flat and was non-reflective. If I put the lumens behind glass like I see recommended for B&W copying, won't I get reflections? I'm not sure how else I would flatten them, as I sure don't want to dry mount them. I could possibly wet them and squeegee them to a ceramic tray but I'm not sure how long that would work. I also need to do this with natural light, so I'm thinking of making some sort of cheap reflectors for even illumination. Unfortunately I don't have a good north-facing window so I'll probably wait for a bright cloud day near a south facing patio doors. I am definitely NOT looking for perfection here, just something good enough to reproduce. I'll be using Ektar, at least for now; it may not be the best choice but that's what I have.

 

[removed account4]

hi wayne
if you have lights at 45º angles you won't get reflections
( except for your camera in the glass ) but a polaroizing fillter will take care of that .
have you seen NedL's nifty solar graph fixing article ? it can be used to preserve lumen prints
and chromodiasic -stuff too ...
i just let them ephemerize or do the electrification thingy.
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[Wayne]

yeah but there is no way to fix them without changing the colors, and that's what I don't want to lose. I hadn't read that solargraph article but I've read Ned's former blog on the topic. It sounded promising but was not to the point of true "fixing". I figure why lose anything when I can copy it all on film? My idea for reflectors was to use those as surrogate "45 degree lights". I don't know if it will work though. I don't have lights and won't be buying any.

 

[bsdunek]

Thanks for remembering that, John. I've used very diluted developer, say 1:20. Don't leave them in it long and then hit the stop. Then you can fix and they stay pretty good. The problem is, you never know how they will be affected, and, I hate to lose a really nice Lumen print. I usually scan them first just for good luck.

 

[Wayne]

I picked up a sub-20 dollar 45 degree cross-daylight copying system at Menards for about $18. i think with a glassless contact printing frame I'll be golden. Sure looks good to the naked eye. Shouldn't get any reflections without the glass, right?

 

[removed account4]

hmm probably .. unless .. it is super glossy paper, but i think you will be OK.

my methodology is kind of like ned's but i develop mine out in old stinky caffenol D ( has spent dektol in it )
and then quickly it skinny dips into the fixer. these things are retina prints, more like solar graphs seeing the image is "stained" on the paper
and not a fluid/chemcial swap between plants and paper-emulsion ...
good luck wayne!

 

[Wayne]

I'll be using my 4x5 so I should be able to eliminate reflections with movements, but I don't see any to eliminate.

 

[Wayne]

Is it live or is it Memorex, or is it better than Memorex? This is just a crappy dig**** snap of an original lumen print and my first attempt at an RA-4 reproduction of a lumen print. I'm pretty pleased with the results so far, although I don't think I'll ever get both blues and reds in the RA print to match the lumen. For one the film was Ektar, which also pumped up the contrast and saturation...but I like it! For two, the lumen is fading...the delicate purply color it had has already subsided. But my main goal, getting a reasonable reproduction without glare and reflections seems to have been achieved, but only because I failed on the first 3. On my 4th and final shot I noticed I had to move the lights just a bit wider to avoid getting shine (like you can see at the top of the lumen) at the lateral edges. At least I don't see any, do you?

I think I'm going to use 6x7 next time.

 

[NedL]

Very Cool!

 

[removed account4]

Very Cool!

holy guacamole ! +1 !

 

[Wayne]

Thanks! Now all I need to know is what to call the one on the right...its not a lumen print, but "RA-4 copy of a lumen print" doesn't have much mojo

 

[MartinP]

Thanks! Now all I need to know is what to call the one on the right...its not a lumen print, but "RA-4 copy of a lumen print" doesn't have much mojo

C-print lumen reproduction? Analogue lumen copy-print?

If one tries long enough there should be a rude acronym available, for memorable future use in galleries...

And that is a very nice lumen print too.

 

[Wayne]

I've decided to invent the term "Lumenochrome" to describe an RA-4 interpretation of a C-41 negative of a lumen print original.