Copy Stands

punkzter · Sep 19, 2020

I'm hoping to put together a camera scanning setup using a Sony A5000 camera, a Canon FDn 50mm macro lens, and a led light board.

What I really need help with is the copy stand. There is a used Kaiser RS1 with RT1 arm available somewhat close to me that I am considering.

But Kaiser also has the Repro Kid on BH that seems decent.

I just wondered if anyone had any thoughts on which might be good for this purpose. The RS-1 seems great, but it may be overkill.

Bormental · Sep 19, 2020

I use this stand. Purchased it on that web page. It's cheap and keeps the camera focus plane perfectly aligned to the base, as verified by pacing a mirror on it. It works as shown, no need to purchase anything else.

runswithsizzers · Sep 19, 2020

There are only 5 user reviews on B&H for the Kaiser Repro Kid - not enough to be significant - but, they do not inspire confidence. Do you know what sensor-to-subject distance will be required for the magnification you need? The specs for the Kaiser Repro Kid show the Maximum Elevation is 22" which will quite likely be more than enough to copy 35mm film with a 50mm lens, but if you want to copy larger format films with a longer lens (without stitching), you might need more height (?) Don't forget to subtact the thickness of your light box.

For about the same price as the Kaiser Repro Kid, I just bought an ALZO Copy Stand <on Amazon> more information <here>. I haven't had a chance to use it yet (still waiting on a lens adapter), so I can't give my personal recommendation - but it was recommended by two Photrio members in <this thread> see posts #43 and #44.

I am using longer lenses (100mm or 75mm), and my diy light box is thicker than a typical LED panel, so, hopefully, the 29" extension height of the ALZO copy stand will be enough, even for medium format negatives.

EDIT: Oops - Bormental beat me to it.

punkzter · Sep 19, 2020

I don't know what the distance is. I have the lens, but I don't have the digital camera yet. I know that I'll be doing 35mm. I'm not sure about medium format. I have an epson v750 scanner, which I may just continue to use for MF. But if I really like this other method, who knows. I shoot some 6x9, so extra height would be useful.

The ALZO seems like a great option, especially for the price. The Kaiser RS1 with the RT1 arm is used, and would be $200 unless I can get the price down. Compared to the original price, that's a great deal. But compared to what I need, it's overkill. And I'd have to make a drive to get it.

runswithsizzers · Sep 19, 2020

I just discovered a problem with my ALZO copy stand. And, I saw a review on Amazon with this same problem: When rotating the knob that adjusts the height, there is place on the gear track where the arm gets stuck. The plastic track appears to have a small gap in between one pair of teeth, as if the track is broken and the two sections were pulled apart. I can wiggle and push the arm over the bad spot, and the gear knob works normally above and below the track. But right at the gap, the knob is inoperable. I will contact the manufacturer/Amazon to see if there is any solution.

[edit update: Amazon is sending a replacement.]

chriscrawfordphoto · Sep 19, 2020

I tried and gave up on finding a good copy stand. The ALZO and Repro-Kid stands looked like junk so I didn't bother.

First, I bought a $400 Kaiser stand that would not hold my Olympus OM-D E-M1 mark II. Not a terribly heavy camera, but it would fall if touched. The stand had no locking mechanism, you just turn the crank to adjust height and the camera is supposed to stay there. It didn't. There were screws to adjust the friction for heavier cameras and I tightened them so tight I couldn't turn them anymore and it still wouldn't hold up that little micro four thirds camera. Returned it.

Then I bought an $800 Beseler stand and couldn't assemble it because the holes in the baseboard did not lineup with the holes on the bottom of the column. Returned it. Still looking for something that isn't shit without spending a fortune.

runswithsizzers · Sep 19, 2020

chriscrawfordphoto said:
I tried and gave up on finding a good copy stand. The ALZO and Repro-Kid stands looked like junk so I didn't bother.

First, I bought a $400 Kaiser stand that would not hold my Olympus OM-D E-M1 mark II. Not a terribly heavy camera, but it would fall if touched. The stand had no locking mechanism, you just turn the crank to adjust height and the camera is supposed to stay there. It didn't. There were screws to adjust the friction for heavier cameras and I tightened them so tight I couldn't turn them anymore and it still wouldn't hold up that little micro four thirds camera. Returned it.

Then I bought an $800 Beseler stand and couldn't assemble it because the holes in the baseboard did not lineup with the holes on the bottom of the column. Returned it. Still looking for something that isn't shit without spending a fortune.

You may be right.

The ALZO does have a basic set screw to lock the height, and the friction for the height adjustment gear is adjustable - though how well they work, I cannot say. The ALZO is obviously built to sell at a moderate price, but I am not yet quite ready to call it 'junk' because I am still hoping it will do an adequate job, once I get one that is not broken. I will report back one way or the other.

punkzter · Sep 20, 2020

thanks all. Yeah, for something that seems so simple...it's seems hard to get a decent one.

Bormental · Sep 20, 2020

@punkzter As I said, ALZO is absolutely fine. It doesn't have the precision and sophistication of a high-quality instrument, but it's not needed. It's sturdy and keeps the camera perfectly level. For $140 it is absolutely perfect. I do about 4 rolls per week on mine, no regrets.

Before that, I used a tripod with invertible head. On one hand, it was even better because a tripod can be collapsed and stashed away when not in use. On the other hand, it took me much longer to transition from 35mm and 120 film formats using the tripod, because so many knobs need to be tweaked, so I finally decided to get the ALZO.

markjwyatt · Sep 20, 2020

Bormental said:
I use this stand. Purchased it on that web page. It's cheap and keeps the camera focus plane perfectly aligned to the base, as verified by pacing a mirror on it. It works as shown, no need to purchase anything else.

Is it large enough to also be used to digitize up say an 8x10" print or documents?

Bormental · Sep 20, 2020

markjwyatt said:
Is it large enough to also be used to digitize up say an 8x10" print or documents?

It depends on what kind of lens (and camera) you use. In my case, it's an APS-C sensor with a 100mm macro, so I doubt it. It will easily work with my 23mm and 16mm lenses, but I don't know if their focus field is flat enough.

runswithsizzers · Sep 20, 2020

markjwyatt said:
Is it large enough to also be used to digitize up say an 8x10" print or documents?

I have started a thread <here> in hopes that someone can help provide guidance for answering questions like yours.

Taking a more practical approach - *IF* you already have the camera and lens you want to use for copying, simply frame and focus the document in camera, and measure the height from the document to your camera's tripod socket. The ALZO copy stand column is 29" from the base to tripod mounting screw, so if your measured distance is less than that, it should work.

punkzter · Sep 20, 2020

That is a very practical approach. I do not have the camera...only (hopefully) the lens.

runswithsizzers · Sep 20, 2020

punkzter said:
That is a very practical approach. I do not have the camera...only (hopefully) the lens.

Using the buy-everthing-first-and-then-measure approach, I can provide these (approximate) numbers if using a 100mm enlarger lens:
If copying 35mm negatives with a 100mm lens: To fill the APS-C sensor requires a sensor-to-subject distance of about 420mm-430mm, or about 16.5"-16.9"
If copying 6x6cm negatives with a 100mm lens: To fill the APS-C sensor requires a sensor-to-subject distance of about 580mm, or about 22.8" (Because the 6x6 negative is square, this "wastes" a lot of potential resolution because only the height of the sensor is filled, and not the width. To get more resolution (pixels), you could go to a higher magnification which fills the width of the sensor, and take two overlapping shots which can then be merged into one bigger image.)

If your camera has a full frame sensor, your focusing distances will be closer.
If your lens is shorter than 100mm, your focusing distances will be shorter.
If your film is bigger than 6x6cm, your focusing distances will be longer (assuming you want to capture the image in one shot rather than stitching overlapping images).

punkzter · Sep 20, 2020

Thanks! Is there any reason to go with a 100mm lens over a 50mm Lens?

Billy Axeman · Sep 20, 2020

A shorter lens gives a shorter distance between camera and film-holder. That will increase the mechanical stability of the copy stand, and less proneness to vibration of the column. A compact setup is also advantageous when you want to build an enclosure around it at a later moment, to reduce flare. The best strategy is to get a camera and a macro lens first and test what exact distance you get between camera and film. After that you can select a copy stand with minimum height. Notice that in most cases you need a macro lens with a magnification of at least 1:1 to be able to completely fill the sensor.

Personally I don't like copy stands, it is good for copying books, but there is no way you can get a stable setup for a sharp image from a negative. It is much better to mount everything on a rail and put a bellows between lens and film-holder to block out light from the environment and from the light source behind the negative. Stray light gives flare and reduces contrast.

runswithsizzers · Sep 20, 2020

punkzter said:
Thanks! Is there any reason to go with a 100mm lens over a 50mm Lens?

For me there was a reason, but for most situations, probably not. I wanted to be able to use the same lens and bellows to copy both 135 film and 120 film.

If you are using a macro lens which focuses from infinity down to 1:1, you don't need to worry about any of this, but for me...

I say bellows because I planned to use an enlarger lens, and bellows allow a much wider range of magnifications than, say, a set of extension tubes. My setup also required a couple of adapters which add more thickness (more extension). I was afraid the combination of adapters and bellows, even with the bellows completely closed, might create too much extension, and therefore too much magnification, to fit a 6x6cm negative on my APS-C sensor when using a 50mm lens. A longer lens requires more extension to get the same magnification, so it seemed like the safer bet, for me.

As Axeman mentions above, the longer lens also results in a longer working distance - which can be good if photographing butterflies, but can be awkward for our purposes. More recently, I got a 75mm copy lens which I hope to try out soon.

Jim Jones · Sep 20, 2020

Most of my copy work has been done with a few enlargers. Some even retained the enlarging head with a 1/4 x 20 thread screw that would also mount the camera. Others needed some kind of home-made adaptor. All were cheap.

Patrick Robert James · Sep 21, 2020

If I ever get serious about camera scans I am going to make one out of extruded aluminum. You can get it at McMaster Carr. Right now I just use a tripod with an inverted center column and a Canon FL bellows. I line it up with a laser alignment tool. Works great for the occasional times I want to use it.

runswithsizzers · Sep 21, 2020

Patrick Robert James said:
If I ever get serious about camera scans I am going to make one out of extruded aluminum. You can get it at McMaster Carr. Right now I just use a tripod with an inverted center column and a Canon FL bellows. I line it up with a laser alignment tool. Works great for the occasional times I want to use it.

There is a lot of d.i.y. around my house, too - so I've been going over some designs in my mind for a home-made copy stand. For the height adjustment knob, I was thinking something like a skateboard wheel could be used to crank the camera up and down on a square column (?)

I would be curious to see how you use your laser for alignment. I have one designed for rough construction, but I'm not sure it would be that useful for precision work - the red dot is too big and fuzzy.

runswithsizzers · Sep 22, 2020

According to an email reply I got from ALZO, some of the gear tracks on their copy stands were broken during shipping, but not in normal use. They are working on a solution.

punkzter · Sep 22, 2020

I think that I'm going to try to adapt my enlarger to work as a copy stand. Here is what I have: Simmons Omega B22 enlarger and a few 50mm enlarger lenses and I just ordered the copy head attachment off of ebay. That requires a t mount adapter.

On amazon, there is a T2 to Sony adapter.

Is a T2 adapter the same as a T?

Am I correct that I remove the condenser and replace it with the copy head attachment. I then attach the t mount adapter and camera to the enlarger. I use the bellows to focus.

I put a light pad on the enlarger board and a negative on that.

Is this all correct? And am I right about the t mount adapter? Is there any reason to think that this won't be as good as any copy stand?

runswithsizzers · Oct 12, 2020

Update on the ALZO Copy Stand.
As mentioned above, the first ALZO Copy Stand I got from Amazon (USA) came out of the box with a broken gear track for the height adjustment. Amazon quickly resolved that problem with a replacement. They even had the broken one picked up from my front porch, so I didn't have to go to a UPS store to return it.

The gear track was fine on the replacement. When I asked ALZO about this problem, they said their Copy Stand has a one year warranty - and if a gear track gets broken, it is always in shipping, and not from normal use.

However, my replacement ALZO Copy Stand had a new problem. The tripod screw used to attach the camera to the mounting plate was not fitting correctly into the mounting plate. Customer service at ALZO were quick to reply to my email, and they sent a washer to install under the tripod bolt head. That would have been an OK solution IF the washer had been the perfect thickness - but it was not. By sanding down the washer on wet-or-dry sandpaper I was able to reduce the thickness of the washer enough to make it work. ALZO says this is not a common problem.

In my mind, it would have been far better if ALZO would have sent me a functional mounting plate assembly rather than only a washer. ALZO customer service did give me a partial refund of $20 for my trouble, so thanks to ALZO for that.

Out of the box, my mounted camera was not perfectly parallel to the copy stand base, but adjustment screws in the ALZO mounting plate allowed me to easily correct for the small amount of sag. The height adjustment knob works OK, but there is no mistaking the feel for a top-shelf precision instrument. I find it helps to give a helping hand when raising the camera. If you are copying only one size of film at a fixed magnification, you wont need to change the height after the initial setup.

In use, the ALZO copy stand is a definite improvement over my tripod setup with the central column inverted (a Bogen 3001, aka, Manfrotto). It's much quicker to set up the copy stand and get everything level. And it is sturdier, too. I notice it most when focusing. With the tripod, I had to take great care not to put any up or down pressure on the focusing knob of my bellows; otherwise, the image would change focus when I released the knob. No such problems with the ALZO copy stand.

So, the bottom line for me is, the ALZO Copy Stand does an OK job, about what you would expect for the money - assuming you get a good one. And if not, ALZO customer service will work with you to try to make it right.

titrisol · Oct 12, 2020

punkzter said:
I'm hoping to put together a camera scanning setup using a Sony A5000 camera, a Canon FDn 50mm macro lens, and a led light board.

What I really need help with is the copy stand. There is a used Kaiser RS1 with RT1 arm available somewhat close to me that I am considering.

But Kaiser also has the Repro Kid on BH that seems decent.

I just wondered if anyone had any thoughts on which might be good for this purpose. The RS-1 seems great, but it may be overkill.

I use a similar setup with an old enlarger and a macro lens for negatives larger than 35mm
For 35mm I use a bellows+slide copier

I have the old nikon repro-copy stand and based on it I designed a copy-holder for my camera (Pentax K5) in oder to ensure that the sensor is perfectly parallel to the baseboard
The light source from a LED with a piece of frosted or white plexiglass to diffuse the leds works OK. However the white balance can be too much to the blue side.
Also, you want to have a piece of cloth or cardboard to avoid stray light form the sides.

Repro-Copy Adapter Pentax K5 - Bogen 22

cptrios · Mar 22, 2021

Can I ask you guys with the ALZO stand, runswithsizzers and Bormental; what exactly are the adjustment options for the mounting head itself? From what I read, it seems like there are screws to adjust the angle 'up' and 'down,' but what about turning it from side-to-side? Do you have to just do your best to align the quick release plate parallel with the camera?

I have a black-pipe-and-clamped-ballhead setup right now, which works fine once everything is set, but is such a huge pain to get level. It's got that old "push up beyond centered, then let it drop and hope it ends up where you want it" thing going, which is extremely fun.

Copy Stands

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