Photo Engineer said:I also know that tray cleaner forms silver sulfate, not silver halide and that is why it is not a rehalogenating bleach. Silver sulfate formed in this type of bleach does not react with developers or other reducing agents to form silver metal, and that is why permanganate and dichromate in sulfuric acid can be used in reversal B&W processes as bleach baths. They form a non-reactive silver salt.
Ferricyanide with bromide forms silver bromide which can be developed again, and that is why it can be used as a rehalogenating bleach and it can also form the basis of a color intensifier for color processes.
Jordan said:Would a bleach solution of dichromate bleach containing NaCl re-halogenate? (I'm assuming that KBr in dichromate is unstable with respect to oxidation of Br- by dichromate.)
One interesting note related to Pat's post is that after bleaching film in the reversal process, the sensitivity of the remaining AgX in the film is somewhat reduced. The use of a clearing bath (sodium sulfite following a dichromate bleach, sodium metabisulfite following a permanganate bleach) restores the light-sensitivity somewhat, in addition to cleaning up the metallic reduction products. So says Grant Haist in "Modern Photographic Processing" in the chapter on reversal processing.
Jordan said:it's just like the toning step in an "odourless sepia toner" kit, only on paper, not film.
Jordan said:For ordinary B&W reversal I usually "fog" with an alkaline solution of thiourea. The chemistry is not the same but it is still very consistent. Thiourea is toxic, but easier to handle than hydrazine or dimethylamine-borane. The resulting slides have a pleasing tone (with conventional films -- when I tried TMX the results were sickly-yellow, probably due to the different grain structure).
I wasn't trying to trick you up. I'm sure you would have known that toner if I had presented the ingredients. It is one of several that have copper sulfate, potassium chloride, potassium ferricyanide and potassium citrate and should as you say produce a copper compound. I wasn't surprised that the sensitivity was much reduced. That used to happen with Anscochrome, which is the first one I developed. I remember exposing the film to a very hot photoflood for several minutes before the second developer. If your tank did not have translucent reels, you had to remove the film.Photo Engineer said:Patrick, I don't have that formula so I cannot answer your question.
I do know that the copper ferrocyanide is soluable in base to a certain degree, and you can clean your trays stained with copper toner, by washing them with alkali.
I also know that tray cleaner forms silver sulfate, not silver halide and that is why it is not a rehalogenating bleach. Silver sulfate formed in this type of bleach does not react with developers or other reducing agents to form silver metal, and that is why permanganate and dichromate in sulfuric acid can be used in reversal B&W processes as bleach baths. They form a non-reactive silver salt.
Ferricyanide with bromide forms silver bromide which can be developed again, and that is why it can be used as a rehalogenating bleach and it can also form the basis of a color intensifier for color processes.
PE
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