Copal #3 highest shutter speed inquiry

Dears

Good morning

I am planning to buy nikkor 240mm f/5.6 lens thats come with copal #3 , but i noticed that the copal #3 Limited with 1/125 speed ( highest speed)
And i am not sure if this will be a probelm shotting indoor/ outdoor

My main reason that i need to buy this lens due to match my filter size ( i have nikkor 90mmwith 82mm filter size and also the 240 come with 82mm filter size )
I will be use this lens 95% of the time in landscape with ilford delta 100 and ilford hp5 with my toyo 45a camera
Thanks in advanc

Sunny 16 rule. The reciprocal of the film speed on a sunny day at f16. But your lens is optimized for f22. So longer rather then faster speeds are usually used. Besides, there are no leaf shutters in 3 sizes with faster speeds.

Bob S said:

Besides, there are no leaf shutters in 3 sizes with faster speeds [than 1/125].

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Compur 3 goes up to 1/2oo
Compur electronic 3 too.

AgX said:

Compur 3 goes up to 1/2oo
Compur electronic 3 too.

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Shutter speeds are in spec +- 30% so the difference between 1/125 and 200 are not significant. I should have said recent 3 shutters as the Compur haven’t been made for decades. And batteries for the electronic have also not been made in decades so jury rigged power has to be supplied.

German shutters were made to comply to german standard and that allowed for a deviation of about 20% -30% depending on speed.

By the way, what were the highest shutter speeds at your LF shutters in Georgia? I cannot find information on this. Were they all made by GOMz or imported from Germany?

Man from moon said:

Dears
I am planning to buy nikkor 240mm f/5.6 lens thats come with copal #3 , but i noticed that the copal #3 Limited with 1/125 speed ( highest speed)
And i am not sure if this will be a probelm shotting indoor/ outdoor

My main reason that i need to buy this lens due to match my filter size ( i have nikkor 90mmwith 82mm filter size and also the 240 come with 82mm filter size )
I will be use this lens 95% of the time in landscape with ilford delta 100 and ilford hp5 with my toyo 45a camera
Thanks in advanc

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The Copal #3 shutter is really big in diameter, and lenses using it are also big and heavy. It should fit on a Toyo 45A lensboard without interfering with anything, but the extension of the Toyo will limit how close you can focus.

If you need the focal length of 240mm for the framing you want, fine, but don't use matching the filter size as the only reason to get a 240mm. You can always get a 210mm/5.6 (which is much lighter and smaller) and use a step-up ring.

Bob S said:

Shutter speeds are in spec +- 30% so the difference between 1/125 and 200 are not significant.

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I am not at all sure that is the correct conclusion to draw from the statistics. Half the time each specimen will be as likely to be 30% slow as it will be to be 30% fast. Both speeds may be slow about 1/95 and 1/160 or both may be fast at 1/160 and 1/260 or the slower may be slow and the faster, faster at 1/95 and 1/260, a very significant difference. Of course statistics are just numbers made out of many different shutter specimens; two may have totally significant differences, assuming consistency. I suppose it is unlikely a shutter will be faster than 1/200 ever but an on spec 1/200 shutter at 1/200 is a full stop faster than a 30% slow 1/125 shutter at 1/95.

AgX said:

German shutters were made to comply to german standard and that allowed for a deviation of about 20% -30% depending on speed.

By the way, what were the highest shutter speeds at your LF shutters in Georgia? I cannot find information on this. Were they all made by GOMz or imported from Germany?

Click to expand...

Copal 3

Bob S said:

Copal 3

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Georgia in SE United States.

With LF and 100 ISO films you'd rarely use 1/125, lenses are optimised for f22. Even with HP5 which I use for hand held work with my Super Graphic while,in Turkey/Greece I rarely manage to use faster than a1/100 @ f22.

I use a 240mm Nikkor W and also other lenses in Compound #3 shutters (1/100 top speed) and don't have issues with landscapes or interiors due to the limit of the top speeds, and you have the choice of Delta 100 for very bright conditions and HP5 in other conditions. Both are my main films these days, I've used them for about 12 years.

Ian

Man from moon said:

Dears

Good morning

I am planning to buy nikkor 240mm f/5.6 lens thats come with copal #3 , but i noticed that the copal #3 Limited with 1/125 speed ( highest speed)
And i am not sure if this will be a probelm shotting indoor/ outdoor

My main reason that i need to buy this lens due to match my filter size ( i have nikkor 90mmwith 82mm filter size and also the 240 come with 82mm filter size )
I will be use this lens 95% of the time in landscape with ilford delta 100 and ilford hp5 with my toyo 45a camera
Thanks in advanc

Click to expand...

I seem to remember that my Focal #3 goes up to 1/400s?

Copal 3:
https://skgrimes.com/images/copal/co3.gif

Copal 1:
https://skgrimes.com/images/copal/co1.gif

The lensboards for the Toyo 45A can be made to fit a #3 shutter. I have been using a 360mm Tele-Xenar mounted in a Compur #3 without any issue on that camera. Using a 240mm on that camera is no issue at all, also at portrait distances. In my own experience the top speed of the #3 shutter is often fast enough even when using 400 iso film, unless you want to shoot (almost) wide open for a shallow depth of field. In that cases a 2 or 3 stop ND filter will do the trick nicely. Also using a yellow or orange filter for landscapes will take 1 or 2 stops of light if longer shutter speeds are needed.

But when you are planning to do a lot of trecking with the 90mm-240mm set i would advise you to replace the lenses with something way lighter as both are big and heavy. The Nikon f8 90 mm provides the same image circle and weighst 360 gr in stead of the 600 gr for the f4.5 version. In the 240mm range process lenses like the apo-ronar are very well regarded for shooting landscapes and portraits. A difference in filter size can be matched with a stepup ring.

Just a comment, a 240mm lens is quite long for landscapes and it's also a big jump from a 90mm, a lot depends on the type of landscape though. I'd want a FL lens in between a 150mm or maybe a 135mm and that's what I use (both) in different kits.

I've not used my 240mm Nikkor much for 5x4. It gets more use on my Half plate (7x5) Kodak Specialist 2 or my 10x8 Agfa Ansco's.

Ian

Copal shutters are generally way off at their highest speed, but rarely deviate more than a third at lower speeds. But every shutter needs to be individually tested to find out its own bias at each respective speed setting.

While your right Drew that goes for all leaf shutters not just Copal, although experience is the Copal/Compound #3 shutters are closer to their true too speed than smaller shutters with higher top speeds.

I have an on-going project where on occasions I may need a faster shutter speed than a Copal/Compur/Compound #3 shutter can achieve, a'' is not lost I either use a Speed Graphic with focal plane shutter, or I could add a focal plane shutter to my existing 5x4 cameras - I have the shutters but a Speed graphic is easier, one of my LF telephoto's is ex Military (British) and shutter less so the Sped Graphic route is ideal q gop speed of 1/1000. I need the speed as I'm shooting moving subjects.

Ian

Ian Grant said:

While your right Drew that goes for all leaf shutters not just Copal, although experience is the Copal/Compound #3 shutters are closer to their true too speed than smaller shutters with higher top speeds.

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Do not overlook there were german and US standards on this (DIN and TGL, ASA).