Copal #0 shutter slow speeds

[MattKing]

Gentlemen,
To my knowledge, @retina_restoration is an experienced and knowledgeable camera repair technician who has willingly taken on the mantle of being the world wide go to person for Retina repairs, due to the retirement of Chris Sherlock, who recommended him as a replacement.
I have no reason to doubt that @monopix is knowledgeable and experienced as well, but I have less knowledge about him.
Moderator hat on:
But in any case, a disagreement about a particular technique between experienced and knowledgeable individuals is a matter of discussion, not a reason to throw around personal words of disparagement - particularly when the discussion is bout one person warning about the risks involved in another's recommendation.
Your points have been made - please move on.

 

[loccdor]

And again thank you all who contributed, regardless of any disagreement.

 

[retina_restoration]

And like I said, I've done it without an issue whereas you're just making assumptions based on no experience whatsoever. Typical Internet expert. Move on.

Please see my business TOS page here: https://kodakretina.exposure.co/kodak-retina-camera-cla-and-repair-service

 

[chuckroast]

Please see my business TOS page here: https://kodakretina.exposure.co/kodak-retina-camera-cla-and-repair-service

Your commentary on IPA for shutter cleanup caught my eye. I've always used surgically applied naptha to losen up shutter mechanisms. The downside is that it can bleed into the aperture mechanism and leave a residue on the blades.

So ... a few questions, if I may:

• Are older leaf shutters known to have a lot of plastic susceptible to IPA degradation?
  
  
• If you do not use an ultrasonic cleaner but simply soak the whole shutter in IPA, is this typically successful or does the application have to be more surgical?
  
  
• Could you elaborate on your specific concerns about a shutter cleaning with IPA in a ultrasonic cleaner. Is it IPA being moved around that is the issue or just that vibrating a shutter like that is likely to throw it out of tolerances?

FWIW, I have never found a leaf shutter that was improved with "lubrication" of any kind, but pretty much every shutter I have carefully cleaned with naptha has jumped back to life with only one or two exceptions.

The most fun exception was an old Acme shutter on my 8 1/2" Commercial Ektar. After a light cleaning, every shutter speed was acceptably on target except 1/50. I sent it off to one very capable tech who had tons of new Acme parts. Even after replacing the mainspring and some of the other innards, he could not get it running properly after hours of trying.

Eventually, it went to Dave Easterwood who got it running flawlessly. Unfortunately Dave is apparently semi-retired, so getting into his queue and getting things back is a pretty long cycle time.

 

[retina_restoration]

Your commentary on IPA for shutter cleanup caught my eye. I've always used surgically applied naptha to losen up shutter mechanisms. The downside is that it can bleed into the aperture mechanism and leave a residue on the blades.

So ... a few questions, if I may:

• Are older leaf shutters known to have a lot of plastic susceptible to IPA degradation?
  
  
• If you do not use an ultrasonic cleaner but simply soak the whole shutter in IPA, is this typically successful or does the application have to be more surgical?
  
  
• Could you elaborate on your specific concerns about a shutter cleaning with IPA in a ultrasonic cleaner. Is it IPA being moved around that is the issue or just that vibrating a shutter like that is likely to throw it out of tolerances?

FWIW, I have never found a leaf shutter that was improved with "lubrication" of any kind, but pretty much every shutter I have carefully cleaned with naptha has jumped back to life with only one or two exceptions.

The most fun exception was an old Acme shutter on my 8 1/2" Commercial Ektar. After a light cleaning, every shutter speed was acceptably on target except 1/50. I sent it off to one very capable tech who had tons of new Acme parts. Even after replacing the mainspring and some of the other innards, he could not get it running properly after hours of trying.

Eventually, it went to Dave Easterwood who got it running flawlessly. Unfortunately Dave is apparently semi-retired, so getting into his queue and getting things back is a pretty long cycle time.

I do not use isopropyl alcohol on any shutter internals; I don't trust it around plastics like bakelite/thermoset plastics. I never, ever just soak an intact shutter in solvent to clean it — shutters are always completely disassembled, and cleaned by hand and/or by ultrasonics. I always use naphtha for degreasing prior to cleaning because it's a much safer solvent and will do everything I need it to do. Components like retard gear trains have to be cleaned by rinsing out contaminants that cannot be removed by just soaking the whole shutter in a solvent. If only it were that easy!
I shouldn't even have to say that using solvents in an ultrasonic cleaner is a really bad idea, and every user manual I have read states this. If you absolutely MUST use a solvent in an ultrasonic cleaner, don't use the heater, and put the solvent into a glass jar with a lid, put your components in it, and then place the jar in the cleaner. But please don't just load up the cleaner with isopropyl alcohol.

As for the Acme shutters — not every one of them can be restored to proper function, no matter how skilled the technician. In 7 years of camera repair, I have had a handful of jobs come my way which had shutters I could not fix. This was almost always because someone had attempted an at-home DIY "repair" that permanently damaged the device.

 

[OAPOli]

People are free to do what they want with their stuff but I wouldn't advocate soaking a entire shutter. There are lots of close-fitting interfaces where capillary action would prevent the solvent to properly evaporate. It would eventually, but also leave residues (that were carried by the solvent) behind. In addition, some shutters require a lubrication schedule (Moly paste) which can only be observed by dismantling the shutter. The residues or lack of lubrication might not affect operation if the shutter is only used occasionally but it will increase wear in the long run.

To the OP. Usually one cleans a speed governor by soaking it in solvent and by thoroughly drying it with a blower and by exercising the gears and star wheel. Whenever I put tiny amounts of oil on the gear shafts it inevitably left a small film of oil under the governor. Likely benign but it is not necessary.