Cool blacks, warm base

naugastyle · Nov 12, 2009

I don't know if I'm not hitting on the right word combo but I can't find this in search.

Is there a way to have cool, deep blacks on a warm base? (Not eggplant-colored). I've seen mention of using cold tone developer on WT paper, which I'll be trying as soon as my bottle arrives, but it seems most people mentioned that the developer cools the highlights. What about the shadows? Do they hit a neutral/cold black?

Or is there a particular toner I would need to neutralize the blacks on a warmtone paper? I'm basically picturing creamy warm highlights/base but no brownish or eggplant hint to the midtones/shadows.

E76 · Nov 12, 2009

When lith printing I often use Fomatone MG Classic which has a very warm base. Toning the prints in strong selenium gives me the cool blacks and warm highlights you describe.

Rich Ullsmith · Nov 12, 2009

Perhaps split toning a cooler toned paper in selenium and sepia. It's a lovely result anyways. If you bleach first, you really have to grab it at the first sign of bleaching, or better yet pull it before you see bleaching, if you have another wet print to compare to.

Tim Boehm · Nov 12, 2009

The blue/black shift on a warm tone creamy base is beautiful. Gold toning can do that.

I gold tone pretty much exclusively and use the following 2 products from Photographers formulary:

Gold toning varies with the paper, and I let it tone for at least an hour, sometimes overnight:

http://www.photoformulary.com/Deskt...tabindex=2&categoryid=13&selection=0&langId=0

Photographer's forumlary also has a product called TAF-1 that shifts to blue-black.

http://www.photoformulary.com/Deskt...tabindex=2&categoryid=40&selection=0&langId=0

naugastyle · Nov 12, 2009

Wow, quick answers. Thanks!

Rich: I've always thought sepia created a more overall red-brown tint, including the "blacks." But the selenium would bring the shadows/midtones on a cool tone paper back to black while leaving the highlights tinted?

Tim: overnight? Is timing not critical w/ gold toning? And do you use TAF-1 every time in addition to the gold toning?

So cold tone developer wouldn't have enough effect on its own? Or is it still useful to use on warm tone, and THEN gold-toning? Would a developer like Clayton Ultra Cold Tone (or Arista) have similar effect to adding TAF-1 to a developer?

Jon Shiu · Nov 12, 2009

Hi, if you bleach for a very short time, in diluted bleach, the sepia will not affect the darker parts of the picture, only the lighter tones.

Jon

Stan160 · Nov 13, 2009

Moersch carbon toner might be worth a try. Not had time to do any real testing with it, but initial impressions are with a low 1+30 dilution, it cools similar to selenium. High dilution above 1+100 it has a subtle warming effect on Fomatone MG Classic, but nothing noticeable with Ilford MGIV FB.

Used on a warmtone paper with the right dilution it might be possible to deepen and cool the shadows and warm up the highlights. Maybe by toning in a low dilution bath until the selenium component has done its work on the blacks, then moving to a water bath which will dilute the carried over toner so the sulphide component warms the highlights.

Ian

Martin Aislabie · Nov 13, 2009

Stan160 said:
Moersch carbon toner might be worth a try. Ian

I found Carbon Toner to give nice neutral results - but Gold gives cold blue/black tones.

Gold Toner starts in the high tones and progressively works its was down into the shadows.

However, be aware that Gold Toner is both expensive to buy and has a very small capacity

Martin

Tim Boehm · Nov 13, 2009

Ansco-130 is my normal developer and I always use a little TAF-1 with it. TAF-1 doesn't work with amidol developers. As for gold toning overnight - a famous photographer told me he did that. His prints from the 1980s were on warm paper and the blue-black shift was beautiful. Fewer people are gold toning, as it's getting more and more expensive. However, I don't make a lot of prints, normally 2 or 3 contacts from 5x7 or 8x10 negatives, so it's not terribly expensive. Not all papers tone well in gold and a little experimentation will be necessary.

naugastyle · Nov 13, 2009

I was in B&H today and gold toner did seem rather pricey. I held off for now.

What about Edwal Black w/ warmtone papers? Does it help neutralize the blacks? I almost picked some up but decided to wait.

Oh, and E76 thanks for your answer as well. I'll try the lith printing at some point.

naugastyle · Dec 28, 2009

Bumping up this old one of mine...I finally got around to testing my cold-tone developer. I have the Arista Ultra Cold Tone from Freestyle, and tried printing on both Forte Polywarmtone and Oriental Warm tone. Results were similar--sort of a dark red-brown similar to the look of using a strong selenium toner on these papers. Nice, but different than I expected/wanted.

I only had one duplicate of each so instead of straight selenium I attempted a sepia/selenium split but probably didn't do it right. I've only tried this a few times (also on cold-tone paper) and I think I'm getting too much bleaching and perhaps need a touch more sepia (using the Fotospeed vario kind), and when I put into selenium it doesn't bring the blacks back to pure black.

Cool blacks, warm base

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