contrast print

Rmaydana · Sep 25, 2020

hi guys, one topic, when you use the split copy technique (grade 5 and grade 0). I usually have problems with degree 0, and it is that when adding degree 5, the copy takes a tremendous turn and I lose detail in the low tones.
You who tell me from experience, from books I have read and seen the videos that are on the net. The idea that your experience tells me about your mistakes, is to collect information, read, process and redirect the darkroom tasks.
greetings and I await your contributions.
The equipment I use is in ilford 500H and I have set the timer in program 2

Por si se animan a responder en Español

hola muchachos, un tema, cuando usan la tecnica de copiado dividio (grado 5 y Grado 0). Suelo tener problemas con el grado 0, y es que al sumar el grado 5, la copia da un giro trementdo y pierdo detalle en las tonos bajos..
ustedes que me cuentan desde la experiencia, de libro tengo leidos y visto los videos, que hay en la red. La idea que me cuenten su experiencia sus errores, es recopilar información leer procesar y redireccionar la tareas del cuarto oscuro.
saludos y aguardo sus aportes.
el equipo que uso es in ilford 500H y tengo configurado el timer en programa 2

Pieter12 · Sep 25, 2020

Are you making a test strip for the 0 filter and judging it only for highlight detail?

Rmaydana · Sep 25, 2020

I make a test strip in grade 0. And evaluated the shadows,
The high lights handled it with grade 5 and it is only for contrast

ic-racer · Sep 25, 2020

adding degree 5, the copy takes a tremendous turn and I lose detail in the low tones.

Giving more Grade 5 (Magenta or Blue) has the purpose of making the dark values darker without affecting the light areas. That is what it is supposed to do.

Pieter12 · Sep 25, 2020

Rmaydana said:
I make a test strip in grade 0. And evaluated the shadows,
The high lights handled it with grade 5 and it is only for contrast

Forget the shadows in 0, 5 will take care of that. Just evaluate the highlight detail in 0.

Rmaydana · Sep 25, 2020

Pieter12 said:
Forget the shadows in 0, 5 will take care of that. Just evaluate the highlight detail in 0.

Giving more Grade 5 (Magenta or Blue) has the purpose of making the dark values darker without affecting the light areas. That is what it is supposed to do.

Pieter12 · Sep 25, 2020

Rmaydana said:
Giving more Grade 5 (Magenta or Blue) has the purpose of making the dark values darker without affecting the light areas. That is what it is supposed to do.

Yes. That is why I questioned your statement in post #3 of evaluating the shadows on the grade 0 test strip.

Donald Qualls · Sep 26, 2020

For standard split filtering (never mind split burning etc.) you'd make your test strip with Grade 0 until the lightest area where you want to retain detail is correct, then expose a full print or strip with that value and make test strip exposures with Grade 5, which are examined for the darkest area where you want to retain detail.

Now, Grade 5 won't always leave the light areas completely untouched; you may find you need to shorten the Grade 0 exposure slightly if your Grade 5 exposure is long.

If you still need to dodge or burn, you'll do that with the whichever filter covers the area you're working -- if you want to bring back a dark area that went full black without changing the overall dark balance, you'd dodge that area during the Grade 5 exposure, or to darken down a dark area you'd burn that area with Grade 5, but if you have cloud detail that gets lost if you expose to keep whites white in other areas, you'll need to burn that with the Grade 0.

MattKing · Sep 26, 2020

What Donald said, with one qualification.
That particular order - test grade zero first, and then grade five after - works well with the majority of negatives.
But for some negatives, such as from high key scenes that are predominantly light in tone, I find it useful to reverse the order.
Test with the grade five filter first, to achieve the shadow detail and tone you seek, and then once you have that pinned down, test next with the zero filter to find the correct exposure to render the mid-tones and highlights the way you want.

Pieter12 · Sep 26, 2020

And you can always pre- (or post) flash the paper to get more highlight detail.

Donald Qualls · Sep 26, 2020

Pieter12 said:
And you can always pre- (or post) flash the paper to get more highlight detail.

With care. It's easy to make your clean whites turn muddy gray. Make sure your flash exposure is strictly less than what produces any visible density on its own.

Pieter12 · Sep 26, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
With care. It's easy to make your clean whites turn muddy gray. Make sure your flash exposure is strictly less than what produces any visible density on its own.

Obviously, you need to establish the flash time for each paper in use and be consistent with the method. I have a separate timer and light source at a fixed distance from the table/baseboard.

Rmaydana · Sep 27, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
For standard split filtering (never mind split burning etc.) you'd make your test strip with Grade 0 until the lightest area where you want to retain detail is correct, then expose a full print or strip with that value and make test strip exposures with Grade 5, which are examined for the darkest area where you want to retain detail.

Now, Grade 5 won't always leave the light areas completely untouched; you may find you need to shorten the Grade 0 exposure slightly if your Grade 5 exposure is long.

If you still need to dodge or burn, you'll do that with the whichever filter covers the area you're working -- if you want to bring back a dark area that went full black without changing the overall dark balance, you'd dodge that area during the Grade 5 exposure, or to darken down a dark area you'd burn that area with Grade 5, but if you have cloud detail that gets lost if you expose to keep whites white in other areas, you'll need to burn that with the Grade 0.

Thanks for the tips,
I always start with the 0 filter (green filter), and once I get the detail in the shadows (lighter areas of the negative), I add the blue filter (grade 5 filter)

Once I get, the balance between degree 0 and 5, the next step to decide is to dodge and burn .

What you're saying is that usually when you add long exposures of. Grade 5, the areas become darker. That's what's happening to me...

I took your comments and it's stuck on the darkroom board... ready to be used in the next, darkroom day,
I have a negative just for that, where there is a big difference between zone III and zone VIII

"If you want to recover a dark area that was completely black without changing the overall balance of darkness, you would avoid that area during Grade 5 exposure, or to darken a dark area you would burn it with Grade 5, but if you have cloud detail that is lost if exposed to keep whites in other areas, you will need to burn that with Grade 0.

Pieter12 · Sep 28, 2020

Here is where you are going wrong: judge the highlight details from the 0 filter exposure, not the shadows. The 5 exposure is for shadow detail. In other words, use the 0 filter to determine the white point and the 5 filter over the 0 filter exposure to determine the black point.

Donald Qualls · Sep 28, 2020

Pieter12 said:
Here is where you are going wrong: judge the highlight details from the 0 filter exposure, not the shadows. The 5 exposure is for shadow detail. In other words, use the 0 filter to determine the white point and the 5 filter over the 0 filter exposure to determine the black point.

While this is correct as far as it goes, you need to be aware that the Grade 5 exposure will most likely have some slight effect on the highlights -- meaning you may have to reduce your Grade 0 exposure slightly to get back the highlight values you originally chose. You won't see this effect if you test for Grade 5 first, but it's much easier to judge the highlight values when the shadows are thin, which is why we usually test the Grade 0 first.

Pieter12 · Sep 28, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
While this is correct as far as it goes, you need to be aware that the Grade 5 exposure will most likely have some slight effect on the highlights -- meaning you may have to reduce your Grade 0 exposure slightly to get back the highlight values you originally chose. You won't see this effect if you test for Grade 5 first, but it's much easier to judge the highlight values when the shadows are thin, which is why we usually test the Grade 0 first.

However, the paper is more sensitive to grade 0 than grade 5--so unless it is a high contrast negative, establishing the grade 0 exposure first works best. You really have to give a much longer 5 exposure to affect the highlights.

Rmaydana · Sep 30, 2020

Pieter12 said:
However, the paper is more sensitive to grade 0 than grade 5--so unless it is a high contrast negative, establishing the grade 0 exposure first works best. You really have to give a much longer 5 exposure to affect the highlights.

guys, thanks for the comments...
as a way of putting a point, the next step is to make the copy of the shared negative.
The negative contains very clear divisions, two low light areas and one high light area with shadows...
One of the low light zones is near the foot of zone III, with a density of 0.34
so the low light zones will have different times and the high light zone will have a longer time of 0 degree, to obtain detail, if any.
the degree 5 will vary according to the area of the negative...

greetings

contrast print

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