Contrast Masking by Lynn Radeka - The New Version - Seeking Feedback?

analog65 · Dec 5, 2015

Hi, I am looking to connect with people that have the Contrast Masking by Lynn Radeka (newest version) and what you think about it.

I am making the assumption the kit is made exclusively for enlargement and not for contact printing large negatives, but I wanted to verify? I often use 8x10, 11x14 and 14x17 large format and in theory it may be helpful to employ some of the masking techniques to my contact prints.

What do you like about the processes that he teaches in the kit?

What do you dislike about the processes that he teaches in the kit?

Which masking technique do you find most useful for your style of photography?

Thanks!!

Bob Carnie · Dec 5, 2015

Ilford had a manual- Cibachrome division - which out lined mask making for Contact Process.

I have done a lot of this in the past, people here, Blindpig comes to mind have had extensive experience making all
types of contrast reducing, highlight blocking, colour correction masks. I think it would be quite easy to learn as a Contact
printer.

I think you will need a good registration system and most importantly a good vacuum blanket carrier to allow the pins in place.
I see them online but with some work you should be able to find everything you need. The trick is to have perfect registration for your
final prints.

I think Alan Ross would be a resource as well as he makes blocking masks to control dodge and burn.

This is a very interesting field of photographic printing, I do believe most of the materials are available, you may have
to delve into the graphic arts field to find some of the pos , neg lith films, diffusion sheets and so on

I am not up of Lynn Radeka's method of mask making - all of the work I ever did in this field was in contact method , and not with the enlarger.

But
I was one of a few ever to use a Lisle Camera that was made for multiple image composite using complicated masks, Blindpig (Don I hate that name)
is another. In the day the camera was purchased for about 3-5 hundred thousand dollars , it was designed out of California, it worked on X Y placement
and the computer driving it was bubble memory which meant sequence memorizing to make it work.
BGM Imaging in Toronto purchased this in the mid 80's and I was hired to be the second person using this rig, basically took me 8 long torturous months to
become agile with it.

analog65 · Dec 5, 2015

Hi, thanks for the info. Yes, the registration issue is at the top of mind for me right now. If I can get that solved, the rest should be fairly straight-forward to work out.

I am currently doing split-grade printing with Ilford filters via a filter holder system that I made to work with a standard silver shop light holder where I use a low watt incandescent bulb as my light source and just lay a piece of glass over my negative/paper sandwich. I like simple... I think the results are good, but there are times where the contrast masking processes I think could really help.

Should be a fun journey to figure all of this out.

Bob Carnie said:
Ilford had a manual- Cibachrome division - which out lined mask making for Contact Process.

I have done a lot of this in the past, people here, Blindpig comes to mind have had extensive experience making all
types of contrast reducing, highlight blocking, colour correction masks. I think it would be quite easy to learn as a Contact
printer.

I think you will need a good registration system and most importantly a good vacuum blanket carrier to allow the pins in place.
I see them online but with some work you should be able to find everything you need. The trick is to have perfect registration for your
final prints.

I think Alan Ross would be a resource as well as he makes blocking masks to control dodge and burn.

This is a very interesting field of photographic printing, I do believe most of the materials are available, you may have
to delve into the graphic arts field to find some of the pos , neg lith films, diffusion sheets and so on

I am not up of Lynn Radeka's method of mask making - all of the work I ever did in this field was in contact method , and not with the enlarger.

But
I was one of a few ever to use a Lisle Camera that was made for multiple image composite using complicated masks, Blindpig (Don I hate that name)
is another. In the day the camera was purchased for about 3-5 hundred thousand dollars , it was designed out of California, it worked on X Y placement
and the computer driving it was bubble memory which meant sequence memorizing to make it work.
BGM Imaging in Toronto purchased this in the mid 80's and I was hired to be the second person using this rig, basically took me 8 long torturous months to
become agile with it.

Bob Carnie · Dec 5, 2015

I use a Stroeser system for punching paper , film, aluminum.=pins are mobile and you get them from Stroeser.

A good solid oversize vacuum frame would be critical... so if you are doing silver masking you obviously would be using over size paper , punching in safelight

making your first exposure with stripped registered negative in place- then masking negs that are registered and made from this first negative would then be used.

Very doable IMO - just need a good working SAFELIGHTED space.

analog65 · Dec 5, 2015

Thanks Bob, for the additional info. I appreciate it. Very helpful.

Bob Carnie said:
I use a Stroeser system for punching paper , film, aluminum.=pins are mobile and you get them from Stroeser.

A good solid oversize vacuum frame would be critical... so if you are doing silver masking you obviously would be using over size paper , punching in safelight

making your first exposure with stripped registered negative in place- then masking negs that are registered and made from this first negative would then be used.

Very doable IMO - just need a good working SAFELIGHTED space.

analog65 · Dec 5, 2015

Bob, I searched online for "Stroeser" and I found the patent and people talking about it, but can't find the product anywhere. Any clues that you can provide that may help?

Bob Carnie said:
I use a Stroeser system for punching paper , film, aluminum.=pins are mobile and you get them from Stroeser.

A good solid oversize vacuum frame would be critical... so if you are doing silver masking you obviously would be using over size paper , punching in safelight

making your first exposure with stripped registered negative in place- then masking negs that are registered and made from this first negative would then be used.

Very doable IMO - just need a good working SAFELIGHTED space.

Bob Carnie · Dec 5, 2015

It would probably help if I spelled it right STOESSER sorry-
they may or may not be in business still I would be interested in you findings as I will need another punch at some time

cowanw · Dec 5, 2015

ask here
http://www.nela-usa.com/
I see some on ebay also

analog65 · Dec 5, 2015

I was able to find a 20" x 30" unit on eBay and ordered it. I needed it anyway, so this was a good reason to push me over the edge. Now all I need is a decent vacuum printing frame.

Bob Carnie said:
It would probably help if I spelled it right STOESSER sorry-
they may or may not be in business still I would be interested in you findings as I will need another punch at some time

Bob Carnie · Dec 6, 2015

They should be easier to find, good luck with your work.

analog65 said:
I was able to find a 20" x 30" unit on eBay and ordered it. I needed it anyway, so this was a good reason to push me over the edge. Now all I need is a decent vacuum printing frame.

analog65 · Dec 6, 2015

Oddly enough, I haven't found one that seems to work for me yet, but I will keep looking until I do.

Bob Carnie said:
They should be easier to find, good luck with your work.

Bob Carnie · Dec 6, 2015

Make sure that when the vacuum is on the pins will drop into the rubber blanket or it will be useless

analog65 said:
Oddly enough, I haven't found one that seems to work for me yet, but I will keep looking until I do.

analog65 · Dec 6, 2015

Bob, thanks for the tip. I am looking on eBay right now and if I find something that looks right, I will PM or email you to have you look it over before I buy.

Bob Carnie said:
Make sure that when the vacuum is on the pins will drop into the rubber blanket or it will be useless

MarkL · Dec 6, 2015

Hello,

I use Lynn's techniques and the 4x5 version of his masking carrier for 4x5 on down to 35mm and I highly recommend them. I know he now makes an 8x10 version and yes theyre for enlarging so I guess the hardware doesnt apply to you. However the masking techniques very well could.

In Lynns kit you get a receiver that you place in the enlarger and leave there. The anti-newton glass negative carrier is hinged so that the neg and any masks are sandwiched tightly together and you just insert the carrier into the receiver on the enlarger. Neg and masks are aligned perfectly in the carrier (the negative is not pierced or otherwise altered in any way its just taped at the edge to an alignment strip with lithographers tape). There are a lot of different masks you can make by contact printing your neg onto lith film to make a positive or negative mask, or print onto inkjet overhead projection film and the control you can get is unbelievable. You can make precision dodging and burning masks as well as contrast reducing or increasing masks. With all the advantages the digital folks enjoy we analog lovers need tools like this!

Mark

analog65 · Dec 6, 2015

Thanks Mark for your comments based on experience. I appreciate it very much.

Thanks!!

MarkL said:
Hello,

I use Lynn's techniques and the 4x5 version of his masking carrier for 4x5 on down to 35mm and I highly recommend them. I know he now makes an 8x10 version and yes theyre for enlarging so I guess the hardware doesnt apply to you. However the masking techniques very well could.

In Lynns kit you get a receiver that you place in the enlarger and leave there. The anti-newton glass negative carrier is hinged so that the neg and any masks are sandwiched tightly together and you just insert the carrier into the receiver on the enlarger. Neg and masks are aligned perfectly in the carrier (the negative is not pierced or otherwise altered in any way its just taped at the edge to an alignment strip with lithographers tape). There are a lot of different masks you can make by contact printing your neg onto lith film to make a positive or negative mask, or print onto inkjet overhead projection film and the control you can get is unbelievable. You can make precision dodging and burning masks as well as contrast reducing or increasing masks. With all the advantages the digital folks enjoy we analog lovers need tools like this!

Mark

rwhawkins · Dec 14, 2015

I'm a big fan of Lynn's kit. I converted my main enlarger to use his carriers, so every print I make goes through his holder.

The hardware itself is not going to help much on contact printing, I would suggest getting some instruction from old pre-press guys if you don't know about registration, orange masks etc. Not sure of any books, I learned first hand from a great pressman.

Lynn's description of the mask types is super useful. I always use an unsharp mask for prints bigger than 11x14, and I'm always using "shadow contrast increase masks" as well as "contrast reduction masks". It really changed how I view changing tonal relationships in a print.

M Carter · Dec 16, 2015

There's definitely a masking kit and registration setup in my future (when I get a 4x5 enlarger) - but ouch, the $$!

For now I go kind of ghetto - I got some printing registration pins that are standard paper-punch size - these work fine for 6x7 unsharp masks, we'll see about SCIM though, where registration is critical. I pin-registered my Beseler 67 (kind of a crazy job) and made a glass carrier for it (no glass carriers were made for the 67), and I scotch tape the pins to the glass. This has worked surprisingly well. (But damn, I want an Omega 4x5… this spring…)

I use this more for paper-plane masking; of course, you have one shot with paper-plane (I can't image ever getting the size and position 100% repeatable) so you have to make all the prints you want (though making the paper masks is pretty quick, I just use RC paper, cut the mask and spray paint the back black.) This has really upped my accuracy for burning specific things repeatably, though I'd prefer to be using SCIM masks at the film plane.

But I imagine the paper-punch size would be pretty accurate for larger contact printing, if one didn't want to shell out for a pricey kit. Ghetto-wise, I don't think a vacuum is totally necessary (nice as it is, I used vacuum holders when I worked in graphic services as a kid in the 80's), a sheet of glass will certainly get an 8x10 or 11x14 flat, won't it?

RobC · Dec 16, 2015

the Durst L1200 has registration pins built into its femoneg neg carrier so does not require a pin registration kit from anyone.

DREW WILEY · Dec 16, 2015

Rob - that fact doesn't solve his problem because Durst never made a matching register contract frame, and even their punches are difficult
to find. Everything need to match precisely. In fact, right now I'm resetting an 8x10 Durst registration carrier to match my extant Condit
punches and contact frames. But once you have a precision contact frame or blanket system, you can obviously contact print right on it as
well as prep images for projected masking applications on an enlarger. For typical film work, a micropin system works best. With really big
film, one of the commerical graphics systems by Olec-Stoesser or Ternes Burton etc will prove more convenient. The latter category is readily available because these companies are still operating; but if one is seeking bargain used equipment, it is more productive to search under industrial graphics and prepress equipment than in some photographic or darkroom category.

RobC · Dec 16, 2015

good job I was only replying to M Carters post then.

blindpig · Dec 19, 2015

Hey Bob,
Sorry about the name(BP) but it's better than"old geezer"LOL!
The last punch I used was a customized Ternes brand and served me well,easily as good as a Stoesser I had earlier.Most of my work was done with enlargers but I also did contact work(sometimes both on the same print),in that case plate glass was used for a contact pressure plate.The glass would be almost touching the register pins but not crowding them,causing a wrinkle or bulge ruining the registration.One of my favorite pieces of equipment was a 4X5 condenser head Omega enlarger modified with a home built registration negative carrier and with registration at the easel as well.
Before later sophistication with respect to registration I started out using a stationary punch with graphic arts register pins.I purchased 1/4" diameter pins from a graphic arts supply house then shopped office supply stores until I found a punch with movable dies that fit my pins. Originally I used only round pins but later arrived at a punch pattern which was one oblong pin on the left side a round pin in the center and an oblong pin on the right side all in a line.Spaced so that two pins worked for 4"X 5" films and all three pins worked for 8"X 10" and above including 20"X 24" sizes.While this worked starting out I have to say it wasn't long before a Graphic Arts register punch became necessary.Amazing things may be achieved using masks,though most if not all can be achieved easier digitally(which is what ended my last business venture.but that's another story).
OP,good luck with your research.
Don

RobC · Dec 19, 2015

Again, the durst L1200 fmoneg neg carier has built in registration pins. The durst modular 70 neg carrier has built in registration pins albeit thicker more like a standard paper hole punch size. I expect most of the other mdeium format durst enlargers hve them too but I'm not sure about that.

Just saying as I know of other people who went out and bought registration systems without realising their durst enlarger was already capable of doing registration.

Bob Carnie · Dec 19, 2015

As Don says

Oblong - circular - Oblong - is the best as the two outside pins have wiggle room so the film on top can under pressure find its final resting place.

three circular punch holes will work but not recommended IMO.

M Carter · Dec 20, 2015

Michael R 1974 said:
That's not ghetto. It works very well. (FYI the Radeka system uses standard paper-punch size pins).

That's interesting. The problem with my setup is I have to remember to keep the punch setup the same (don't slide the pins around) and I can't do three pins other than in a row. In my graphics days, we used three register marks (not 4) and did them around the border of the work. For pins, I'd like to be able to do 2 on the long side and one on the short side - can't do that with a standard office punch - but so far accuracy has been repeatable.

I have a project coming where I'll be doing paper plane film and paper masks at 16x20, and I'll definitely need more than two pins on one axis. I may have to, I dunno, glue two punches to a piece of plywood or something...

DREW WILEY · Dec 21, 2015

If do you go on the cheap, realize that most paper punches these days are VERY poorly made and utterly useless for this kind of purpose.
There are probably some older ones still around that might work so-so. Just depends on how much you diffuse the images. Most register
systems for standard camera film sizes use micro-pins. It fairly tricky to calibrate these things without some machinist skills. I was fortunate to acquire quite a bit of gear from Warren Condit back when they were still in business. I've seen some of their gear come up for sale recently, but without full matched sets, you really can't do much, especially if you are contemplating color printing using masking, which is something I highly recommend to anyone serious about darkroom color. All these smaller systems are 2-pin.

Contrast Masking by Lynn Radeka - The New Version - Seeking Feedback?

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency