Continuous agitation

irishwoodpecker · May 24, 2012

Hi

I have read that Rodinal does not take kindly to continuous agitation (e.g.Jobo DuoLab).

If this is so, does anyone have any suggestions for a good B&W developer that works well at 24C and continuous agitation.

Regards

Rick A · May 24, 2012

Pyrocat-HD.

Nicholas Lindan · May 24, 2012

I haven't heard that Rodinal has any particular problem with Jobos. It has a minor cult following of 'diluted standists' - which may have lead to an inadvertent rumor that it can't be rolled. But the real question is "Have you had any problems?"

On the Pyro side, my experience has been that Jobo's with sheet film & spiral reels don't get along well with Pyro. Pyro is sensitive to agitation turbulence and there is quite a build up of density at the leading/trailing edges of the film. Rollo Pyro - which has a low rate of aerial oxidation - may be the best bet.

Working very well in Jobos of all sorts are D-76 (ID-11), HC-110 (forgot the Ilford equiv.) and Microdol-X (Perceptol(?)). But they are so unsexy, no cult following at all.

MattKing · May 24, 2012

T-Max or, if you prefer a replenishment regime, T-Max RS.

Mainecoonmaniac · May 24, 2012

I use Xtol and HC-110 in a Beseler Drum with constant agitation and it works well. My experience with PMK Pyro make me think that constant agitation will work also.

removed account4 · May 24, 2012

exactly ...
i wouldn't use tmax developer with sheet film,
you will get dichroic fog, if you have to use tmax for your sheet film
use tmax RS. it won't give you dichroic fog.

good luck !
john

wildbill · May 24, 2012

you've probably been told to avoid rodinal because it exhausts quicker than other developers when used under constant agitation. Use two batches instead, one for the first 1/2 of development, one for the 2nd half.

MDR · May 24, 2012

You can use Rodinal with continuous agitation, you'll just loose a bit of acutance which is the main reason for using Rodinal. 24°C in Rodinal = Grain. Pyrocat P and PC were designed for rotary development. Jay de Fehr's 510-pyro can be used as well.

Good Luck
Dominik

cliveh · May 24, 2012

irishwoodpecker said:
Hi

I have read that Rodinal does not take kindly to continuous agitation (e.g.Jobo DuoLab).

If this is so, does anyone have any suggestions for a good B&W developer that works well at 24C and continuous agitation.

Regards

Why do you want to use continuous agitation?

Bob Carnie · May 24, 2012

I have been processing film in Pyro in a Jobo for over 15 years with no problem.. I cannot tell you how many runs but enough to say we have gone through over 10 lift arms with our various units.

irishwoodpecker · May 24, 2012

cliveh said:
Why do you want to use continuous agitation?

I am very limited on space and intend to use my Jobo DuoLab.

cliveh · May 24, 2012

irishwoodpecker said:
I am very limited on space and intend to use my Jobo DuoLab.

Forgive my ignorance, but what has limited space got to do with continuous agitation?

Neal · May 24, 2012

Dear irishwoodpecker,

Rodinal works just fine in my Jobo.

Neal Wydra

Leigh B · May 24, 2012

wildbill said:
you've probably been told to avoid rodinal because it exhausts quicker than other developers when used under constant agitation.

Rodinal will not exhaust under any conditions when used at the proper concentration: minimum 10ml of concentrate per 80 square inches of film (1 roll 35mm etc).

wildbill said:
Use two batches instead, one for the first 1/2 of development, one for the 2nd half.

Where did that come from? What constitutes a "batch"? And what does "the first 1/2 of development" mean?

With continuous agitation you will not get any compensating effect, but that's true of all developers.

Rodinal has been my main developer for over 50 years, and I've never encountered a problem with it when used per the directions.

Of course there are always folks who think they know more than the manufacturer.

- Leigh

mikebarger · May 24, 2012

I wonder where the rumor of stains not working with continious atigation started? I've run a lot of 120mm film in 510 Pyro on a Unicolor base with no issues.

removed account4 · May 24, 2012

cliveh said:
Forgive my ignorance, but what has limited space got to do with continuous agitation?

hi cliveh:

the OP is using a rotary processor, so you put the film in ( rolls or sheets )
and it turns and reverses and turns and reverses until the development is done.
so what this means is the OP needs to use a developer that works with rotary systems.

from what they say, its a great way to get consistent processing every time.

john

Nicholas Lindan · May 24, 2012

mikebarger said:
[where did the idea of] stains not working with continious atigation start?

I wasn't saying staining developers don't work in a Jobo.

What I, and others, have noticed is that (1) sheet film, (2) in spiral reels, (3) in a Jobo, (4) and with pyro/catachol developers develops more at the edges than in the middle - more so than with plain-ole D-76 & Co.. If you aren't doing (1), (2), (3) and (4) then this bit of anecdote is of no interest or use.

Also Pyro developers that oxidize quickly - ABC Pyro comes to mind - will develop terrific general (non-image) staining due to aerial oxidation caused by the constant minor turbulence [normally a very good thing] that goes on inside a spinning Jobo drum. That is the reason for Rollo Pyro with its addition of Ascorbic acid as both an anti-oxidant and a developing accelerator - Rollo develops in about 1/2 the time of traditional pyro formulations, 1/2 the time = 1/2 the general stain [or that is the theory].

PMK and P'Cat are also said to work well in a Jobo.

Photocrack · May 25, 2012

For in your Duolab in rotary development:

+ The mentioned Pyro developers
+ CG-512 1+4 (always on 24C)
+ Xtol/Fomadon Excel W27 1+1 - 1+3
+ HC-110 dil H
+ D74 1+15 - 1+19.

- Rodinal in rotary will give much less acutance then inverse processing. Even the biggest problem is 24C which gives a lot of extra grain. So certainly not the first choice.

Bob Carnie · May 25, 2012

I can vouch that Hutchings PMK has no issues in a Jobo, I have no experience with other Pyro Formulas..
Sandy King has mentioned to me that his formula works well in a Jobo , but I have never tried it.

Michael R 1974 said:
It is not a rumour. It is relevant to the use of older formulas. Some modern staining formulas work well, but others might not. Testing is required. Streaking due to aerial oxidation can be a problem.

Bob Carnie · May 25, 2012

One trick that we learned very early with PMK in a Jobo was to split the developement into two baths of equal time.
It also should be noted that we use 1 liter baths for all our chems so some may find this too expensive.

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