Contax SLR buying advice wanted

RattyMouse · Feb 25, 2015

Hi All,

As many here might know, I have been toying around with buying a Contax SLR for darn near 1 year if not longer. For whatever reason, I just think I would enjoy shooting a Contax SLR. I am certain that I don't need to buy this camera to enjoy photography, but on the other hand, I have the money and Shanghai is literally swamped in Contax gear (when I visit the used camera stores). I can buy almost anything that I would want and in reasonably good shape.

I'm not 100% certain that I'm going to do this but I think I'm as close as I have ever been to making a purchase. I have my eye on a Contax RTS III. This is a beast compared to my usual Nikon FM2n. I can handle the increase in size because it feels REAL good in hand. I would buy this with a 50mm f/1.4 Planar lens as a trial run. If I dont like it, I can sell off these two pieces with minimal loss, or if I enjoy it, I can begin building up a stable of Zeiss lenses. As I said, they have virtually every last Zeiss lens made for this mount. One store I visited has over 50 C/Y mount lenses. It's just amazing.

My concern with the RTS III is two things. First, longevity. Given average luck, how long would one expect an RTS III to last before breaking down? These are not fixable cameras for the most part so I could be left hanging if the camera dies on me. I wonder, can I expect 5 years, 7 years, or 10 years before it dies?

Second, what to look out for when examining an RTS III for potential purchase? How can I test out something like the vacuum sealing ability of any body? What other parts of the camera are prone to failure and should be examined?

One way around this problem is to not buy the RTS III and instead go with a Contax S2B, of which there are several very mint examples in the stores. This is much more expensive than an RTS III, and almost the same as my Nikon FM2n. Part of me wants to try the RTS III but maybe it is best to go with the more mechanical camera.

Thanks for listening and providing comments. Hopefully I can make a purchase. If not, I hope you dont feel as if your time has been wasted replying to me. I am *really* thinking this over hard.

Patrick Robert James · Feb 25, 2015

I haven't owned a RTS III (yet!), but it can suffer from one of the afflictions that many cameras of it's age suffer from which is LCD bleed. That doesn't necessarily prevent it from being used though. It is a great camera regardless, probably one of the all time great film cameras. I would love to own one.

If you want a camera like the RTS III but don't want to spend the money, look for a ST. The ST is the little sibling to the RTS III and is a fantastic camera. You will want to get the grip for it which makes it the perfect small size. Not as large as a RTS III, but just large enough. Personally I hate the "flying pinkie" when I use a camera which means that as much as I would love a S2, I wouldn't like using it. Who am I kidding? I would love a S2.

If you want to go even cheaper than that, a 139Q with a winder is a nice package. Even cheaper is a Yashica FRI with a winder.

The real reason to buy any Contax camera though is the lenses. Looking at it from that perspective, any Contax or Yashica body will do.

Good luck!

RattyMouse · Feb 25, 2015

Patrick Robert James said:
I haven't owned a RTS III (yet!), but it can suffer from one of the afflictions that many cameras of it's age suffer from which is LCD bleed. That doesn't necessarily prevent it from being used though. It is a great camera regardless, probably one of the all time great film cameras. I would love to own one.

If you want a camera like the RTS III but don't want to spend the money, look for a ST. The ST is the little sibling to the RTS III and is a fantastic camera. You will want to get the grip for it which makes it the perfect small size. Not as large as a RTS III, but just large enough. Personally I hate the "flying pinkie" when I use a camera which means that as much as I would love a S2, I wouldn't like using it. Who am I kidding? I would love a S2.

If you want to go even cheaper than that, a 139Q with a winder is a nice package. Even cheaper is a Yashica FRI with a winder.

The real reason to buy any Contax camera though is the lenses. Looking at it from that perspective, any Contax or Yashica body will do.

Good luck!

Thank you for your reply. Cost is not a major issue regarding the RTS III. My concern is reliability. I will gladly pay for the most reliable camera and it is my guess that the RTS III should be near the top of that list, second only to the S2B maybe?

RobC · Feb 25, 2015

Some early RTS III models had problems with the LCD panel on top going too dark to read but later ones resolved that.
Otherwise check it throughly with a 1.4 lens on it in shop to make sure that manually setting aperture shows correct aperture in viewfinder. This is to check it hasn't been reassembled incorrectly.
Check mirror looks striaght and it sounds OK at different speeds.
I doubt you would notice any benefit from vacuum back unless its tripod mounted. If you don't need mirror lockup then the ST is the one to go for.
The Aria is also very good for a small and light camera and it has excellent inbuilt metering.
I have a now old 167MT which has been very good and also an aria. I never quite got round to an RTS III but was always thinking the ST would be a better option for me.

The 50 1.4 lens isn't so special. Save yourself some money and get the standard 50 1.7 which was rated the best standard lens available back in its day.
The 85 1.4 is a superb lens as is the 135 2.8.
And if you are looking for zooms the 35-70 3.4 is very good. The 28-85 ain't so good contrary to what people say. It has lots more distortion. The 35-70 has macro focus too.

The 35-70 on an Aria is nice small setup for a daily carry around. The RTS III is a heavyweight beast of a thing.

I guess it depends what you're going to use it for. For landscapes the mirror lockup on the RTS is useful but for street then an Aria with zoom would be good.

How long will it last. Haven't a clue cos it will depend on how much its been used and abused and how much you will use it. If you try hard I expect you could wear it out in a week but then again you might not wear it out for 10 years or more.

Alan Gales · Feb 26, 2015

An older salesman at the local pro shop and I were discussing Contax and he told me that the 169 MT was the most trouble free of the Contax cameras. He also said that the most problematic part of 35mm cameras of any brand is the manual film advance. The 169 MT has a motorized advance which helped eliminate this weakness.

Of course all these cameras are old now and there is no way to predict when a particular camera will fail.

RattyMouse · Feb 26, 2015

Alan Gales said:
An older salesman at the local pro shop and I were discussing Contax and he told me that the 169 MT was the most trouble free of the Contax cameras. He also said that the most problematic part of 35mm cameras of any brand is the manual film advance. The 169 MT has a motorized advance which helped eliminate this weakness.

Of course all these cameras are old now and there is no way to predict when a particular camera will fail.

I wonder how many people here agree with this. There are so many more parts to an electric motor, all parts that can fail.

blockend · Feb 26, 2015

I've also thought about a III, but have avoided one because of a suspicion of technically sophisticated cameras that are no longer supported by the manufacturer. If you're set on an RTS III I would only buy from a dealer, and get a warranty period of some kind for them. Stress test the camera during this period, and if it holds out you probably have a good one. Beyond common sense rules like that, it's the luck of the drawer.

I have a soft spot for the CY mount, but have never gone higher than Yashica ML lenses, which are one of the best bangs for your buck in manual focus lenses.

Richard S. (rich815) · Feb 26, 2015

RobC said:
The 50 1.4 lens isn't so special. Save yourself some money and get the standard 50 1.7 which was rated the best standard lens available back in its day.

Big +1 on this.

Stop overthinking this so much. Get a good used RTSII (not III) and start shooting. Life is short and gets shorter and faster. You could have already been shooting with this setup for a year now.

blockend · Feb 26, 2015

Richard Sintchak (rich815) said:
Big +1 on this.

Stop overthinking this so much. Get a good used RTSII (not III) and start shooting. Life is short and gets shorter and faster. You could have already been shooting with this setup for a year now.

Good advice, but to a different question I got the impression the OP was asking specifically about dropping a fair chunk of cash on a once state of the art hi-tech camera with unknown spares and service support. Like you, I'd go for a MkII or even a vanilla RTS and when/if it dies, write it off to experience. As we speak there's an RTS III on ebay with 1.4 for 500 smackers, perhaps more from a dealer. For many of us, that's not a what-the-hell sum of money if it all goes fizz. An RTS II body can be picked up for £35-60, quite a difference. Stick on a Yashica ML lens and you'd have 90% of the Contax experience for a fraction of the price.

For some people owning the III (and only the III) with a wide Contax prime will be the whole point of the experience, and if they want it as a daily user rather than a collectable to remind them of the youth when dreamed at the camera shop window, the equation isn't as simple as it first appears. Which is why I guess the OP is exercising his doubts on here.

RobC · Feb 26, 2015

And another thing, whilst the S2 is on the face of it a very appealing camera (I was looking at one but research told me not to do it), basically its a yashica in contax clothing and reputedly has terrible mirror slap with vibration.

PentaxBronica · Feb 26, 2015

RattyMouse said:
I wonder how many people here agree with this. There are so many more parts to an electric motor, all parts that can fail.

I wonder if he meant that the motorised advance made the camera less prone to damage from people winding it violently?

I can see that taking the human element out of the process might help. There are people out there who can't interact with anything gently - they're the ones you hear yanking the handbrake on in their car, slamming the brakes at the last second rather than rolling to a halt, or treating doorhandles like a tug of war contest (often when the door is either locked or needs to be pushed!) Some cameras will survive better than others in the hands of such apes, and a fully electronic camera might well last longer as it's physically impossible to be as brutal with the controls.

There are motors over a hundred years old which still work perfectly (look at some of the Swiss railway network). It's all about the quality of materials and how good the design is. A major mistake is to make it impossible to clean the commutator, change the brushes and add a drop of oil to the bearings. Do all of those and the motor will last at least as long as the rest of the drivetrain.

TheFlyingCamera · Feb 26, 2015

Granted I don't use it much, but I do have an RTS III now, with the 50mm f1.4. I think you can see a difference with the vacuum film plane pressure plate - I couldn't quantify it in any meaningful way, but somehow the focus seems just more spot-on. It certainly would make a difference in long exposures where the film is more likely to move/expand/contract. But as to reliability, I've not had any problems of reliability or durability with my Contax cameras - over the years I've had two 167 MT bodies, an RX, and now an RTS III (not to mention my Contax G and G2 bodies). Contax has always made cameras with innovative features (first ever auto-bracketing in the 167 MT, the digital focus indicator in the RX, auto-focus for manual focus lenses in the AX, vacuum film plane and TTL flash metering for non-dedicated strobes in the RTS III). These cameras were built to the same standard as Nikons and Canons, and had they been a bit more popular in their day, we wouldn't be having this discussion. For whatever reason, in the US anyway, they never caught on to the same degree that they did in Europe and Asia. My systems have traveled with me to some pretty exotic places (tropical jungles in Belize and Cambodia being the harshest environments) and they never failed (well, the focusing screen retaining clip on one of my 167 MT bodies did break, most likely due to clumsiness on my part. But I was able to fix it with a spot of cellophane tape and finish the trip, with no pictures out of focus due to screen misalignment). I would just do a very careful inspection of whatever body you're contemplating buying, make sure its functions all sound right, and observe any observable behavior (mirror up/down, shutter operation, etc).

benjiboy · Feb 26, 2015

I would research the the repair service and spare parts availability before I bought a Contax and spent a lot of money on Zeiss lenses.

RobC · Feb 26, 2015

benjiboy said:
I would research the the repair service and spare parts availability before I bought a Contax and spent a lot of money on Zeiss lenses.

My bet is that in Shanghai you can get anything fixed if you can find the correct person and very likely the shop its being bought from can get it fixed by an expert if necessary.

If you are in Europe then these are the people for Contax repairs: http://www.tritec-service.de/

Richard S. (rich815) · Feb 26, 2015

benjiboy said:
I would research the the repair service and spare parts availability before I bought a Contax and spent a lot of money on Zeiss lenses.

There are loads of working Contax SLR bodies and Yashica bodies out there, very cheap.

blockend · Feb 26, 2015

RobC said:
My bet is that in Shanghai you can get anything fixed if you can find the correct person and very likely the shop its being bought from can get it fixed by an expert if necessary.

You may be correct, however http://japancamerahunter.tumblr.com/ has warned his clients that parts for some desirable cameras have simply dried up. More sophisticated cameras have more of a parts issue than mechanical models, where some kind of repair be affected, even if it means making the item. Contax vacuum backs probably fall outside backstreet ingenuity, but maybe someone knows otherwise?

RobC · Feb 26, 2015

RTS III could definitely be problematic for parts but the models are numerous enough and cheap enough to buy two or three for spare parts if it concernes you. I expect the repairers do exactly this. So is it really such a stumbling block. I don't think so.

blockend · Feb 26, 2015

RobC said:
RTS III could definitely be problematic for parts but the models are numerous enough and cheap enough to buy two or three for spare parts if it concernes you. I expect the repairers do exactly this. So is it really such a stumbling block. I don't think so.

You're probably right, but like I said, The RTS III sells for prices that discourage buying a few more for donor organs. Anything is replaceable at a price, but that price might be a whole RTS III.

Alan Gales · Feb 26, 2015

RattyMouse said:
I wonder how many people here agree with this. There are so many more parts to an electric motor, all parts that can fail.

Back in the day when these cameras were made, the motorized film advances were really reliable. Of course they are old now. I owned two 167 MT's a few years ago and never had a problem. My step-son shoots one now and it has never given him a problem.

If you did have a problem though it might be tough to find parts to fix the camera but as cheap as they are, they now belong to the throw away club.

RattyMouse · Feb 26, 2015

Thanks everyone. The discussion in this thread has been very helpful. Particularly the talk about the Contax ST. Somehow that model escaped me. I'll keep thinking about this. My heart really wants to go with a Contax SLR but my head thinks that I should just buy Zeiss lenses for my Nikon FM2n. These F mount lenses would easily move over to a Canon EOS system if I end up buying a Canon 1V (which I'm really thinking of, sometime in the future).

I figure that the life of these Contax cameras is slowly drawing down and that soon I'll not have the chance to own this part of history. That's where my heart is pushing me, to partake in this Brand one last time before it's gone.

HUGE thanks everyone!

Richard S. (rich815) · Feb 26, 2015

Yes go Zeiss F lenses.

Patrick Robert James · Feb 27, 2015

Modern Zeiss lenses that fit Nikon won't work with Canon any better than old Contax lenses will. Plus, although I haven't looked at the prices of modern Zeiss, I would be surprised if they were less than the old Contax Zeiss.

I think you should stick to your original plan. If you want to save a couple of bucks, get a different body. Don't worry about the reliability of the camera. Odds are if it is still working after 20 years, it will still work for another 20.

RattyMouse · Feb 27, 2015

Patrick Robert James said:
Modern Zeiss lenses that fit Nikon won't work with Canon any better than old Contax lenses will. Plus, although I haven't looked at the prices of modern Zeiss, I would be surprised if they were less than the old Contax Zeiss.

I think you should stick to your original plan. If you want to save a couple of bucks, get a different body. Don't worry about the reliability of the camera. Odds are if it is still working after 20 years, it will still work for another 20.

I thought I read somewhere that there are some C/Y Zeiss mount lenses that won't clear a Canon EOS mirror; that the mirror needs to be shaved in order to be used. Perhaps I am wrong about this.

RobC · Feb 27, 2015

does it have to be an slr ?

consider M-Mount lenses. They are very good and you can get zeiss or Leitz glass for Leica or Zeiss or voigtlander and other camera makes. And a big bonus is that most of the m-mount lenses can be put any compact system camera with appropriate mount. So you only need to invest in one set of lenses which will fit many camera brands and both film and digital cameras.

RattyMouse · Feb 27, 2015

RobC said:
does it have to be an slr ?.

Yep... I have my rangefinder needs taken care of. I'm only interested in SLR cameras in this thread. Thanks anyway.

Contax SLR buying advice wanted

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