Contax RTS III test?

quixotic

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Does anyone know if there were ever any publicized tests of this camera's film flatness in relation to sharpness of the final prints? I've googled it, but can't find anything. You would've thought that if the vacuum function was anything more than just a gimmick, it would've been shouted from the roof-tops, and they'd be selling for a bit more than $300 on ebay.
 

shutterfinger

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Popular Photography and Photographic (magazines) had test or reviews of this body as well as their annual comparisons buyers guide. While I was a subscriber I no longer have the magazines. The RTS III was on my top pick list but I purchased a Nikon F4s for the availability of lens and accessories and it was about $300 less than the RTS III. The articles would be around 1990-1991.
 

wiltw

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I could only find a page 84 mention, in a 'catalog' of cameras, published by Popular Photography in 1996

https://books.google.com/books?id=IZdHOG7zepoC&pg=PA84&lpg=PA84&dq="Contax+RTS"+1975&source=bl&ots=RzhsxH0Fpe&sig=jDsQMau_GOG8AndUVe0FgiJ04Sg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiUjK7y_e3cAhUM658KHRt2BPoQ6AEwDXoECAEQAQ#v=onepage&q="Contax RTS" 1975&f=false

And some user reviews

http://www.photographyreview.com/product/cameras/film-cameras/35mm/contax/rts-iii.html

In 2002 someone posted" https://camera-info.com/threads/review-contax-rts-iii.1127/

"The RTV-System

The biggest surprise was the RTV-system, which was known before just in the aeroflight photography. Contax implemented in the RTS III a ceramic film pressure plate and an electro-magnetically controlled suction device. if you press the shutter release the camera sucks the film against the pressure place to insure extreme film flatness. But why this complicated technique you will ask.

The Research of Carl Zeiss in Oberkochen found out that the film flatness has in some circumstances quiet strong influence on the sharpness and contrast of a picture. Because of the design of a normal film cartridge, the film never stays for a long time flat after forwarding it to the next frame. That is why the industry tried to hold the film straight and flat with the filmschienen.

But still after winding to the next picture the film curls after a couple of minutes. This gets even worse in different temperatures, humidity and thickness of the film. The idea now is, that if you want to exploit really the potential of a very good lens, you should make sure, that the film stays absolute flat in the camera, even after a couple of minutes. 1979 (!) was a special article from Zeiss about that problem, which you can find in the download section. To make it short for this review, it is proved, that the results if you are using a fast lens at fully open ‘til aperture of ca. 2.8. with the RTV are significant better.

A quote: “...Flatness errors of this type suffice to conspicuously change the image quality of fast lenses. This pronounced defocusing. for ex&le, causes a drop in contrast in the 50mm Planar f/1.4 from 60 to about 20% at 20 cycles/mm. This phenomenon was more or less exhibited by the films of all manufacturers...”

Since this problem occurs even stronger in medium format, there is also for the Contax 645 an RTV backplate optional available."
My guess is that the popular press simply did not see sufficient interest in a $3200 MSRP camera in 1975, and/or they could not get one provided as a loaner for testing purposes! It certainly did not help things, that Zeiss lenses for the Contax listed from $482 for a 45-millimeter f/2.8 to $23,797 for the Tele-Ato Tessar 300-millimeter f/2.8!
 
OP
OP

quixotic

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Thanks Shutterfinger. Found it. September 1991. It said "barely discernable" in "some instances". Then it had a full page of lab results that I haven't read yet...but will. Wow! $3,200 back then, and $300 now. It's the Golden Age for tech junkies!
 

wiltw

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I just found an interesting post http://cdegroot.com/archives/yashicacontax-slr/199811/msg00086.html

"Dear colleagues,

"before the discussion about the sens or nonsens of the RTS III's vacuum back
is escalating into a debate about a snobbish attitude of Contax users (and
please bear in mind that this list was originally founded as a Yashica list
- and I have to think hard to find some less snobbish camera owners than
Yashica photographers - maybe Praktika users? Many Contax users have
started by slowly and painfully upgrading an existing Yashica system, either
by buying some - mostly second-hand - Zeiss lenses for their Yashica bodies,
or by adding a Contax camera and still using their Yashica or 3rd party
glass with it, so I think most of us Contax users know very well that
slightly arrogant smile some over-equipped Nikon/Contax/Minolta etc.
photographers bear in their face when they meet someone handling his or her
small FX-3, FX-D, FX107, FR-I or whatever simple and old Yashica body we had
in our bags. I do not think that Contax photographers are more arrogant than
the users of other system brands, but maybe the fact that we have to save
money considerably longer in order to buy a single lens, and that we are
enjoying this purchase more intensely and for a longer time sometimes is
misinterpreted as snobbish attitude. I am convinced that a Canon or Nikon
photographer who has just spend a sum which would be enough to buy a small
car on a 800 or 1200mm lens also will readily talk about its wonderful
quality in the most flowerish words - without being a snob.) I would like to
put down my thoughts and experiences with this vacuum device. Most of it has
been written a long time ago in the rec.photo newsgroup and can be still
read on Steve Scary's Contax website.

"During a meeting in Les Baux in 1979, Dr. Kaemmerer of Carl Zeiss spoke
about the possibilities to improve picture quality in modern large aperture
lenses and referred the results of measurings Zeiss had made on the flatness
of film. Most film materials showed deviations from total flatness up to
80um (Mikrometers) which mostly was found in the center of the picture frame
(therefore it would be totally useless to locate the RTV's openings near the
egde of frame!). This deviation is responsible for a reduction in contrast
of about 60% when measured with an 1.4/50 lens wide open. The reason for
this problem is not the film material itself but the mound of the film
cartridge, which is bending the film material in this problematic manner. If
the film is expended rather quickly, then the bending is not perpetual, but
if the camera is left with the loaded film for some days (as it is quite
often with us hobby photographers), the two or three frames which are bended
by the cartridge mound do not lose their deviation when they are pulled into
the picture frame behind the shutter curtain. If they are exposed with a
wide-aperture lens then the chance that they are not sharp in spite of the
viewfinder showing exact focussing is rather large.

"Quite a time ago there was the thread on the rec.photo where Nikon F 4-users
complained about a possible "design flaw" in their cameras because some had
experienced several cases where the second, third and fourth picture of a
day's shooting session were not sharp. In fact they were not victims of a
camera design flaw but rather of a film cartridge design flaw. In his speech
Dr. Kaemmerer stated that Zeiss had made some tests with a slightly modified
cartridge in order to minimize this bending problem, with good results.
According to him Zeiss had contacted several film producers and asked them
to incorporate these modifications into their film cartridges, but without
result, as we now know. So ten years later the Kyocera engineers brought us
the vacuum back in the RTS III to solve the problem which would not have
been one if the film producers had done their homework.

"I could personally make out the difference when I sometimes realized that
pictures I had made with a 1.4/85mm on my ST were not sharp in spite of me
being absolutely sure of having focussed as exactly as possible. So I
contributed those spoiled pictures to a camera shake or my inability of
focussing that lens if used wide open (f1.4 or f2.0). After I had bought the
RTS III I never experienced these problems, so I did not think about it any
more, but when I read the printing of Dr. Kaemmerer's speech, I retrieved
some of the unmounted film strips I still had and - thanks to the ST's data
back - I realized that indeed the unsharp pictures where numbers two and
three (I am not sure about no. four) of the day, and the camera had not been
used for at least three days.

"So I had to conclude that the RTS III's vacuum back indeed has a positive
effect, but in such few and special instances, that itself the RTV never
would justify the camera's high price.
To be honest, I would prefer a more
versatile databack as that available for the AX against the vacuum back, but
since it is built into the camera, it is nice to have it. If the RTV is
deactivated when using lithium cells instead of AA batteries should not
worry anybody - as long as you tend to shoot Pulitzer-prize winner pictures
with an 1.4/50 or 85mm wide open in the beginning of the day!

"Please excuse my lengthy response,
Marcus
Dr. Marcus Hanke
European Legal History Dept.
Faculty of Law
Salzburg University
Churfuerststrasse 1
A-5010 SALZBURG, Austria"​
 
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In the 1990s I conducted a test of the RTSIII, ST and AX using Zeiss' 55 1.2, 21 f2.8 and 100 f4 Bellows lenses, being arguably their most exacting in terms of overall and edge-to-edge sharpness. I chose the ST and AX for comparison with the RTSIII back-plate because the ST has the same ceramic plate but without the vacuum and the AX has the standard back plate (albeit a moving one!). I printed my series of test images on 8x10" paper and could not spot any difference; to my eye they were identical. When pushed to near A2 size, the Bellows lens images did show better central definition - but not by much - and I could not see any significant enhancement in overall sharpness in the RTSIII piccies with the 2 other lenses. That said, according to my notes I did see an improvement to the edge definition in the 21mm and 55mm lens images. Was it a gimmick? Arguably but when you were paying thousands for Zeiss optics, anything that helped to get the best out of them was defensible. My biggest gripe with the RTSIII - and the reason that I was obliged to keep using my RTS Fundus or RTSII - was the absence of a 250 back. When you have a motor drive that fast, a roll of film is gone in a few seconds... As a sports fan, it was maddening: it meant taking a minimum of 3 bodies, 2 with identical lenses, and having an assistant ready to unload and reload constantly; hence the trusty old RTS series cameras and the 5fps drive and bulk back... The arrival of the first f1.2 Planars was a boon to indoor sports work but at that price, you definitely felt the need to extract maximum benefit from the subsequent photos.

Ah, those were the days but, much as I hate to admit it, digital shooting is much simpler. But never fear, I still use my old RTS bodies - and most of the other C/Y cameras - on a regular basis though bulk film is becoming harder to find.
 
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