Contax 645 or Mamiya 645 AFD - Help me decide!

I'm a huge techie gear nerd and I've just recently gotten into Film. I shoot a 5D3 for my digital work, so the EOS-1V has been a great starter camera for me, I love it but to be completely honest I've always wanted a medium format. I remamber years ago lusting over Hasselblads and in the past years I had mad the decision on a Mamiya. I would search the web for one but always procrastinate and never buy it. Now that I've finally made the jump to film and I think I'm a bit hooked. So pulling the trigger on a Medium Format camera will be much easier lol.

I've found a few great outfits locally and I'm completely stuck...

1) Mamiya AFD, 80mm f2.8 & 150mm f3.5 w/ 120/220 back (also includes a Sekonic L-558 that I dont need)
2) Contax 645, 80mm f2 Zeiss w/ 120/220 back.


Both are selling for a decent amount less then what I've seen them go for online and they are also both open to negotiations.
My question is, what would be the best choice for me?

• They both feel about the same in my hands.
• The Contax seems to be considered the better camera, but is it?
• I love shooting wide open with large apertures.
• I shoot Wedding & Portraits.
• Film is currently just a hobby, I dont plan on using it in my services any time soon (but that could change later on)
• If I got the Mamiya, I would probably sell the 150mm lens and definitely sell the Sekonic as I already have a LM, so this would bring the cost down more.
• I dont see my self investing in other lenses. 80mm is

Let me know what you think of the prices. Are they low, fair or high?

Mamiya kit = $1100.00 (Friend of a friend, I've negotiated this price from an original asking price of 2000.00)
Contax kit = $1800.00 (It's at a local camera store on consignment, owner says I can definitely negotiate a much lower price. It's been there for months)

I´d go for the Mamiya: extra lens, lower price. Don't worry too much about the 'Zeiss look' you'd be missing, none is better, just different (Zeiss is lower overall contrast, sharpness is equal for all practical purposes). Accessories/replacements for the Mamiya tend to go much cheaper (extra back, lenses).

To be perfectly honest, I don't think either is a screaming deal. In continental Europe the Mamiyas can be had for less. But maybe forget about that, you're not in Europe, and you have to deal with what is offered.

I used to own a Contax 645 with three lenses and wasn't thrilled beyond other 645 brands.

One advantage to the Mamiya system is that you can use the Mamiya manual focus lenses on the 645AFD's.
The AF mamiya lenses aren't exorbitant and the MF versions are downright cheap.

The accessories for the Contax system are obscenely priced.
Backs are astronomical and even the lowly oem lenshoods are mostly around 150.00 usd. Yes, approx one hundred fifty u s dollars for a freakin' lenshood!
I recommend the rubber lenshoods that Mamiya has for the RZ with a step ring.


Both the kit prices you have listed look pretty good.
A bit high for a standard 645AF but about on time for the AFD versions.
The plain "AF" body goes for cheaper.

It's wedding season so the Contax system is bringing good money right now. I've seen a standard kit go for 2200.00 recently.

I think I can shed some light on this, considering that I own both of those exact cameras at the moment!






About a year ago, I bought the AFD because frankly unless you shoot people on 645 most of the time, it's just not worth the premium to shoot the Contax. About 2 months ago, I came upon a swingin' deal on a Contax 645 and picked one up.

Bottom line: The Contax is the better camera if you shoot pictures of people, outside, with available light. The Mamiya is better if you shoot test charts or in the studio. Both of the suck for landscapes because 645 is still pretty small.





The things that stood out to me between the two:

-The Mamiya has better overall ergonomics if you've got long surgeon fingers like I do.

-The Contax is completely modular. Finder's, Screens, backs, lenses, grips. The whole thing comes apart and can be a completely different camera if you wanted it to.

-The Mamiya has a smarter shutter. When you take a back off, the mirror and curtain snap out of the way, the Contax keeps those fragile parts down.

-Weight is somewhat similar, but better distributed on the Mamiya. Plastic lens/Plastic body vs Metal lens/Carbon Fiber body.

-The Mamiya 80mm is sharper than the Zeiss 80mm when both are wide open..by a long shot too.

-The Mamiya is a b*tch to manually focus, the Contax is a breeze. The Mamiya feels like it's on ball bearings vs. a tight resistance with the zeiss.

-The Contax with the 120/220 back has a hard time keeping 120 flat. It's par for the course to have a severe V shaped field curvature towards the long end on the left size of the image. Look at other photogs who shoot Contax's and you'll see it all the time. I haven't a clue about 220 in those inserts or with the 220 vacuum back.

-The Contax is alot quieter.

-The Zeiss 80mm is easily the most unique lens i've ever used and one of the most beautiful. If you shoot wide open, it is THE lens to use.

-The Mamiya flares better...if shooting into the sun is what you do.

-The Contax has quieter and easier AF, the Mamiya is reminiscent of the Nikon's of the 80's.

-The viewfinders are equally terrible in comparison to the Hasselblad 645

-The 80mm f/2.8 AF has a flatter field in general compared to the Zeiss 80mm.




I shoot Weddings and portraits too, got a Wedding on Saturday actually...and i'm telling you, get the Contax. It is the better camera. The Contax will look dramatically different than what you're getting off 35mm or digital. The Mamiya..not so much. The 80mm AF for the Mamiya actually renders strikingly similar to the Nikon 50mm f/1.4G sans veiling flare. The Contax will let you shoot in most lighting situations you would 35mm, the Mamiya not so much. f/2.8 with film isn't really that fast, and if you're shooting backlit into the sun exposing for the shadows.. you need all the light you can get.



Now if you shoot with a Phase in the studio..than yeah, the extra sharpness and veratility with a current system trumps the f/2. But if you're shooting people with Portra, Ektar, or 400H.. F/2 trumps sharpness and flat fields.

Here are some comparisons and examples. If you shoot available light portraits, don't waste your time and money with the Mamiya if you can afford a Contax.



CONTAX:






MAMIYA:

1.4,
is the film flatness issue evident on any of the examples you posted?
A bit small to tell here but woondering what part of the image it tends to show up?

Along the left long side as you look at the print???

Unless you are planning on using a digital back or absolutely need AF I would buy the earlier manual focus Mamiya 645 pro. It's cheaper and like the Contax it's modular. The old manual focus lenses are great and cheap, they also have a better build than the new AF lenses (they also weigh more though). You can use the MF lenses on the AF bodies, but you have to stop down the lens manually. If you love large apertures don't forget the Mamiya 80mm f/1.9. If money is of no concern to you then I would probably go with the Contax, but like others have said, if you want to expand on the system by adding lenses and accessories it will quickly get very expensive.

brucemuir said:

1.4,
is the film flatness issue evident on any of the examples you posted?
A bit small to tell here but woondering what part of the image it tends to show up?

Along the left long side as you look at the print???

Click to expand...

The right picture not so much..but take a look at the truck:

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate all the info.

I'm leaning a bit towards the Contax because I know it ROCKS for a wide open portrait camera and everything I see come out of that thing is just AMAZING!
But the wife isn't to happy about spending that much haha, especially considering I just got into film not long ago. I'll swing by the camera shop this week and see how much I can wiggle that price down to.

It's crazy, I seen a similar Contax kit go up for sale for 2800!!! I'm sure it'll never sale but jesus, are they going back up in price???

F/1.4: Do you have a flickr or site? I love all your shots you posted up!

The Contax has more of that "medium format look" than a Mamiya, but both will do great, bottom line. Lawrence Kim chose a Phase over a Contax when he tested them side-by-side for logical reasons.

I try to keep a tumblr, it's about 90% film. the first 4 pages are all film until you get to the night landscape..than it's film/digital..

F/1.4 said:

The Contax has more of that "medium format look" than a Mamiya, but both will do great, bottom line. Lawrence Kim chose a Phase over a Contax when he tested them side-by-side for logical reasons.

I try to keep a tumblr, it's about 90% film. the first 4 pages are all film until you get to the night landscape..than it's film/digital..

Click to expand...

No offence, but you're comparing the contax f/2.0 with the Mamiya f/2.8, you should compare it to the f/1.9 if you want to be fair. It's a pretty darn dreamy lens too, although less known.

TomTomJ said:

I remamber years ago lusting over Hasselblads and in the past years I had mad the decision on a Mamiya. I would search the web for one but always procrastinate and never buy it. Now that I've finally made the jump to film and I think I'm a bit hooked.

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If years ago you always wanted a Hasselblad why not now? The used prices are fairly reasonable and generally a kit can be found in pretty decent condition. I did this a few years ago. I had and still have a Mamiya 645ProTL kit, but had found a Hasselblad 501C / 80mm CF kit in excellent condition with original boxes on ebay from a reputable seller for less than $1300 (although lately I think prices have been creeping up a bit). I've slowly built onto to this kit adding lens and other accessories. I still use the Mamiya on occasion, but my preference is the Hasselblad, I think because I'm partial to the square negatives and the feel of the camera (and no batteries).

About a year later I snagged a 500C/M / 80mm C kit off Craigslist for $700 that I couldn't pass up.

Here's a great comparison by (formerly) Seattle wedding/portrait photographer Laurence Kim:

http://laurencekim.com/2011/04/21/contax-645-vs-phaseonemamiya-645-the-final-showdown/

and more:

http://laurencekim.com/2011/03/16/phaseone-645af-mamiya-afdiii-review/

http://laurencekim.com/2011/02/06/contax-645-first-impressions/

F/1.4 said:

The Contax has more of that "medium format look" than a Mamiya, but both will do great, bottom line. Lawrence Kim chose a Phase over a Contax when he tested them side-by-side for logical reasons.

I try to keep a tumblr, it's about 90% film. the first 4 pages are all film until you get to the night landscape..than it's film/digital..

Click to expand...

Link to the tumblr?

amsp said:

No offence, but you're comparing the contax f/2.0 with the Mamiya f/2.8, you should compare it to the f/1.9 if you want to be fair. It's a pretty darn dreamy lens too, although less known.

View attachment 51595

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My buddy has the 1.9 lens and it's definitely dreamy.

MarkF48 said:

If years ago you always wanted a Hasselblad why not now? The used prices are fairly reasonable and generally a kit can be found in pretty decent condition. I did this a few years ago. I had and still have a Mamiya 645ProTL kit, but had found a Hasselblad 501C / 80mm CF kit in excellent condition with original boxes on ebay from a reputable seller for less than $1300 (although lately I think prices have been creeping up a bit). I've slowly built onto to this kit adding lens and other accessories. I still use the Mamiya on occasion, but my preference is the Hasselblad, I think because I'm partial to the square negatives and the feel of the camera (and no batteries).

About a year later I snagged a 500C/M / 80mm C kit off Craigslist for $700 that I couldn't pass up.

Click to expand...

To be honest, I think it's because I havent found a kit locally and because I might be leaning more towards an AF MF camera.
I dont know how much I'd like manual focus... LOL

olwick said:

Here's a great comparison by (formerly) Seattle wedding/portrait photographer Laurence Kim:

http://laurencekim.com/2011/04/21/contax-645-vs-phaseonemamiya-645-the-final-showdown/

and more:

http://laurencekim.com/2011/03/16/phaseone-645af-mamiya-afdiii-review/

http://laurencekim.com/2011/02/06/contax-645-first-impressions/

Click to expand...

Awesome, thanks so much for sharing that! I'll be sure to give them a good read!

Manual focussing on a 645 is quite easy but naturally you need some skill for moving subjects.

There is a guy on flickr that has a direct Zeiss 80 f/2 & Mamiya 80 1.9 comparison.

I'll go see if I can find it if it is still up.

Have you considered the Pentax 645n or 645nII? Lenses are excellent, as is metering. The AF is very respectable, with reports of it being superior to either the Mamiya or Contax, particularly in dim light. Exposure info is imprinted outside every frame. Nice ergonomics and handling. Renowned for very low mirror vibration.

There are no backs, just inserts, which might or might not be a problem for you. But you can carry preloaded inserts and switch very quickly.

The normal lens is a 75mm/2.8. No f/2 option, but DoF is still pretty shallow wide open. Lenses have gone way up with the introduction of the 645D, but the 75's are still abundant and fairly reasonable, with the AF ones more than the Mamiya 80, and much less than the Contax 80.

Just another option to consider.

TomTomJ said:

Link to the tumblr?

Click to expand...

oops!

www.ajmeeker.tumblr.com

I've done a lot of research on mf cameras in the past and time and time again for quality and price Mamiya always came out on top. Contact is nice but it's an older camera and prices are going up. Hasselblad is basically a Mamiya with shiny chrome and a price 10 times more for no reason other than a name. Pentax is good, my 2nd choice.

Shootar401 said:

I've done a lot of research on mf cameras in the past and time and time again for quality and price Mamiya always came out on top. Contact is nice but it's an older camera and prices are going up. Hasselblad is basically a Mamiya with shiny chrome and a price 10 times more for no reason other than a name. Pentax is good, my 2nd choice.

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Owning both a Mamiya and a Hasselblad I can tell you they are not the same, in no way shape or form. Ignoring the obvious fact that one is 6x6 and the other is 6x4.5, the Hasselblad looks, feels, and handles differently. It's very much a different shooting experience, which is why I love them both.

Agreed, Mamiya's =/= Hassy's. And Pentax's 645's are a DISTANT runner up to a mamiya or a hasselblad. Regardless of the lenses those are just awful cameras.

F/1.4 said:

Agreed, Mamiya's =/= Hassy's. And Pentax's 645's are a DISTANT runner up to a mamiya or a hasselblad. Regardless of the lenses those are just awful cameras.

Click to expand...

Which shows just how personal these things can be. I always disliked the 645, but I thought the N and NII were pretty nice.

F/1.4 said:

oops!

www.ajmeeker.tumblr.com

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WOW, I absolutely LOVE it all! I wish I had half your talent!

I'm still completely stuck between the two outfits and especially since I'm having issues with the 1V, I really want to get one of these MF cameras soon.