Contaminated Fix - Rollei Digibase C-41

Trojan_Llama · Jan 21, 2014

Hi, I'm an idiot. I bought Rollei Digibase C-41 (super 5L) chemistry kit. I made up all of the solutions, from the entire contents of the kits, having read on the great shelf life it appears to have on practice.

Then during first use, on a test 135 ..... incredibly, I managed to pour some of the used bleacher solution into the the fixer drum. Maybe 100 ml of bleacher into a drum of around 2.5 litres of fixer. It er.. went a bit red in colour. Once you managed to stop laughing at my stupidity and clumsiness, could someone confirm that I've 1) destroyed my stockpile of C-41 fixer, 2) created a health, safety, and environmental disaster. Or could it still be of use (other than for a chemical bomb)?

Rudeofus · Jan 21, 2014

You involuntarily created a weak BLIX (= bleach & fix in one), and the bleach will oxidize your fixer over time. Until that happens, you can use that contaminated fixer without problems.

Colin DeWolfe · Jan 21, 2014

I'm not a chemist, but I do color. Chances are you have a weak bleach-fix now. Really depends on the composition of the bleach, but most likely you won't notice a difference. If you are reusing your fixer from batch to batch, there will always be some carry over from one bath to the next.

It'll be fine. Just use it up quickly.

That being said, if you can get your hands on some HYPAM or non-hardening fixer, you could just use that instead. The fixing time might change, but it's a "to completion" step and since color film has less silver, using the B&W times should suffice. Only thing is that C41 fixer typically neutral pH, and HYPAM is acidic. The Ilford Data sheet talks about HYPAM being used at 40C.

Photo Engineer · Jan 21, 2014

Colin;

One correction! Color film has often 3x more silver in it than B&W films and the silver is harder to fix out in C41, so times might be longer! TF-5 from the Formulary was actually designed for this kind of work!

PE

Colin DeWolfe · Jan 21, 2014

Good to know. I am aware there there are 3 layers, but I was informed by the now long gone AGFA rep that each layer had less silver, and was just there for dye formation and not image formation (no silver image). I was also told the same thing about color paper. I still have the jug of FX-UNIVERSAL. He must have been misinformed, because I am aware of your knowledge in this area.

Trojan_Llama · Jan 21, 2014

Thanks for thast great advice - I'll try it until I see problems.

Photo Engineer · Jan 21, 2014

Colin, I have coated color negative film and color paper. While it is true that the silver content of color paper is decreasing, the content of film is about the same as it always was. If you decrease it, the film gets grainy fast.

Each color (C/M/Y) layer has as much silver in a color film roll as in an equivalent roll of B&W film.

PE

Truzi · Jan 21, 2014

I've seen mention of using TF-5 for color film a few times here on APUG. Is it okay to make a habit of using TF-5 in c-41? I've read its PH is correct, but only seen reference to using it "in a pinch."

Photo Engineer · Jan 21, 2014

It is usable in all cases. Remember, I was there!

PE

Truzi · Jan 21, 2014

Photo Engineer said:
It is usable in all cases. Remember, I was there!

PE

Thanx. I have a couple c-41 kits, but once I get the hang of it I intend to buy components. Plus it will be nice to have one fixer for paper and both color and b&w film. I still have a few packages of powdered Kodak fixer to use up first - might take a while.

Terry Christian · Jan 21, 2014

I think David Lyga had advocated using 10 g/L potassium ferricyanide as a C-41 bleach in a previous thread. If that indeed works, then the combination of that, and using TF-5 for fixer, should simplify things considerably for home use.

Photo Engineer · Jan 21, 2014

OOOOOOOOOO! DO NOT REUSE ANY FIXER FOR B&W after use with color. The reason is carryover of bleach into the fix. If there is ANY, you stand to lose detail in both shadows and highlights due to blixing action.

Use this fix for ONE or THE OTHER, not BOTH.

PE

Truzi · Jan 21, 2014

I knew about film and paper, but not color and b&w fixer separation. Thanx for the advice.

I will keep them all separate. I see it as an advantage, and simpler, to inventory fewer chemicals if possible; less to keep track of, and less required for reserve. If I am fine with fix for color, but out of B&W, I could simply open a new bottle of the same stuff. I see it as requiring only one "back-up" bottle before re-order. I would just have to remember that color film has more silver, so will count the "rolls" differently on that batch.

(Can TF-5 be used for E-6 as well?)

trendland · Nov 15, 2017

Photo Engineer said:
OOOOOOOOOO! DO NOT REUSE ANY FIXER FOR B&W after use with color. The reason is carryover of bleach into the fix. If there is ANY, you stand to lose detail in both shadows and highlights due to blixing action.

Use this fix for ONE or THE OTHER, not BOTH.

PE

Well regarding this older threat again - I learned about ! So I never did this ( reuse fix from color to bw ) but in general : BW fix isn´t allowed to fix color film because of much different ph. But color fix is usable to fix bw films ( with other times ).
If it is used ( the color fix with color films ) it can destroy the original properties/ characteristics of the bw emulsion a bit ( less resolution in highlights and shadows. ) But this will not happen with unused " NEW" c 41 fixer ?

Is this correct ?

with regards

PS : I did not handle any cases in this way ( the use of color chems to bw ) still up to now. But possible it will happen one day if there is a left over ( unused ) of c41 fixer

Photo Engineer · Nov 15, 2017

Fresh color fixer can be used for both B&W and color. Used fix can be used for color and if there is no carryover of bleach into the fix, the color bleach can be used for B&W.

PE

trendland · Nov 15, 2017

Photo Engineer said:
Fresh color fixer can be used for both B&W and color. Used fix can be used for color and if there is no carryover of bleach into the fix, the color bleach can be used for B&W.

PE

Ok - thats quite clear now.Many thanks PE

with regards

Contaminated Fix - Rollei Digibase C-41

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