Contact Printing Frames - Always have glass?

[Kino]

In going through my wild assortment of printing frames I have slowly gathered over the years, I noticed some have glass and others do not.

Were some frames made for "glassless" printing?

Or is it that the random ones I picked up without glass are just missing the glass?

The springs seem to flex enough to accommodate a glass plate, so what's the verdict?

 

[BrianShaw]

I always assumed that those without glass were because it broke. All of mine either have original glass or replacement glass.

 

[koraks]

I don't really see how a contact printing frame without glass would work.
I mean, I've heard about (and done) contact printing with just a sheet of glass and no frame. But a frame and no glass...nope.

 

[Kino]

OK, that's what I thought but didn't want to assume...

 

[DREW WILEY]

There were contact frames involving pressure against a piece of glass. They'd be useless without that glass. Then there were larger graphics industry pin-registered contact printers which utilized a transparent plastic "blanket" drawn down tight over the film via a vacuum pump. Consistent pressure is needed in either case.

 

[Rick A]

I used to have a 5x7 glassless contact printing frame, used for contact printing glass negatives.

 

[MattKing]

Would frames have been used with glass plate negatives?

 

[Mick Fagan]

Would frames have been used with glass plate negatives?

In a word, yes.

I started in the B&W graphic arts industry at the very tail end of glass plates being used in an industrial photographic environment; early to mid 1970's. We had a cleaning bay where the emulsion was scrubbed off the glass of already used glass plates. Then by hand, emulsion was tipped over the newly scrubbed super clean glass from a jug. There was one employee who was a wizard in getting a reasonably consistent emulsion coating without wasting too much liquid emulsion. I once had a go, devil of a job, but fun to try.

Once dried the plates were sometimes duped using a glass frame holder. To ensure the plates are held rigidly, we used wooden wedges around the perimeter of the glass to wedge the two glass sheets to ensure registration was kept.

These were using an orthochromatic emulsion, which was done under a red (I think) safelight. Later on and just before we stopped using glass plates, I seem to remember we used yellow light, fluorescent safelight tubes right at the end, coinciding with an emulsion supplier change. Which would be around 1975-6. The yellow light was very welcome as it meant many processes could be conducted directly under the yellow safelight in a part of the room, while normal white fluorescent tubes were in the rest of the room. I remember we were amazed for quite some time with this advance in graphic art technology.

I would suggest in a home environment, a glass frame holder is possibly not an absolute requirement, but having one would probably be beneficial to your reliability rate.

 

[Kino]

I used to have a 5x7 glassless contact printing frame, used for contact printing glass negatives.

Did they seem to be constructed differently than a frame with just the glass removed? I wondered about that myself...

 

[titrisol]

I have a 35mm contact printing gizmo for 5 frame strips that is glassless; basically a plastic frame with rails for film.
It came as part of a darkroom stuff deal and I have never used it

 

[DREW WILEY]

There is a difference between casual contact "proofing" and getting a good contact print via sheet film in consistent contact.

 

[xya]

I have a contact printing frame without glass for large format up to 8x10. It's a frame, a bit larger than 8x10 with 2 strips of metal sliding in guides to make any size between smaller than 4x5 and 8x10. The negative is held down at its borders. So you get a white border on your positive.

In the 80s and 90s the ultimate chic would have been to get an ultra-thin black frame from the clear border of the negative next to the white border of your positive.

 

[DREW WILEY]

There's simply no way to get a crisp contact print using border only hold-down.

 

[xya]

There's simply no way to get a crisp contact print using border only hold-down.

I see your point, but a lot depends on the thickness of paper and film and the way they are stored...

 

[DREW WILEY]

Paper is never really flat unless it is forced to be. And not even sheet film has any significant weight. "Contact" means contact - tightly; otherwise you loose all of the nuanced qualitative values which distinguish contact prints, and end up only with the look of casual proofs. If that's all you need, fine. But to anyone with experience, it's an obvious fact that a real contact frame applying consistent pressure to every portion of the sandwich is necessary. A slide-in substitute simply won't accomplish the same thing.

 

[Rick A]

Did they seem to be constructed differently than a frame with just the glass removed? I wondered about that myself...

It was very similar to a frame with glass.

 

[xya]

...But to anyone with experience, it's an obvious fact that a real contact frame applying consistent pressure to every portion of the sandwich is necessary...

Wow, that leaves no room for any other opinion. FYI: I have some experience, about 50 years of living from it as an art photographer...

 

[DREW WILEY]

It's just the basics. People have made their living in photography with all kinds of substandard equipment. But there's a reason relatively high-quality contact frames were invented in the first place, which apply CONSISTENT PRESSURE on the entire sandwich. I have several, and one is an antique; but even it was very well made for this exact purpose. My newest ones have high quality silicone rubber foam in them, along with pin registration and Anti-Newton glass; the antique one used layers of high-quality felt.

It is simply physically impossible for a slide-in system to do the same thing. Film buckles; paper is affected by tension and humidity. It sorta works; but how well? This has nothing to do with your art, but is meant to answer the original question. Nobody would find a serious print shop going glassless, or without vacuum draw, optionally.