Contact Print - Blotchy - Opinions?

Hi all, well with the arrival of my Kodak 2D 8X10 camera I shot my first photograph with it. The film is Ekfe 100 8X10, it is fresh. I shot with a 14" Petzval and with the bellows extension it was an f11 at 1/8 sec (guesstimate as I used a Packard shutter)

I tray developed the negative in total darkness, 11 min at 68F, 10 seconds of agitation with my fingers on the side of the negative every min. in Kodak Xtol that was diluted 1:2. The negative was then placed in Kodak indicator stop bath for a couple of min. then placed in Kodak fixer for 10 min with some agitation at 5min. I washed the negative in my archival print washer before placing it in my drying cabinet for a couple of hours. The negative was completely dry when I made the contact print. I placed the negative in the contact printing frame which is brand new and very clean; it is a Photographers Formulary frame that was $52 from BHPhoto. I place it in with the non emulsion side against the glass, placed a piece of Ilford MG FB paper with the reactive side against the emulsions side of the negative and then secure the back.

I placed the contact frame under the light from my enlarger with a 150mm Schneider Componon-S lens wide open. I exposed several prints before I found that 3 sec is sufficient for a correct exposure from the light of the Beseler 45MXT enlarger with a cold light head.

I developed the print in Dektol for about 50 sec, print into stop bath for about 1 min, then into Kodak fixer for 2 min. Washed the print in my archival print washer for over an hour. Dried the print on my Arkay "flipper" print drier and this is the resulting photograph. This is the same way I do for normally enlarged prints and have good results.

I have inspected the negative and do not see the "blotchy" areas that I do see on the print. I appreciate your thoughts as to what could cause this problem. This is my first shot of 8X10, first time developing in trays, first contact print so I am still learning. Thanks for your opinions for this phenomenon.



BTW: my son is holding a very fuzzy guinea pig, that is what the furry thing is at the bottom of the photo

My first thought is you need more agitation. With sheet film every 30 seconds I pull the sheet out from the bottom of the stack, push down the stack, and then push down the sheet which moves a lot of developer. This makes for very even development—move the film a different direction to establish a random pattern. So, if you are doing one sheet, you should agitate it on the same time cycle as if you were moving through a stack.

As for the exposure, shooting for an exposure time of around 10 seconds will allow you to fine tune your print in 5% increments with some control.

Even in the fix (10 sounds long), move that film—don't let it just sit there for a prolonged time.

First off, why so long in the stop? 30 seconds is sufficient. Fixing a neg is similar to developing for agitation, time seems a tad long to me. Where is the fotoflo step? Possibly water marks on the negative.
Now lets talk about developing the print. IME, Ilford paper needs 2-3 minutes in Dektol (1+2) to develope to completion. Marks possibly from not developing long enough, and the lines from the print being submerged showing(not enough time for all the paper to catch up).
Another possibility is incomplete contact between neg and print. My inclination is either water marks from drying, or incomplete development.

I forgot that to mention that I used photoflo before putting it in the drying cabinet, there are no water marks on the film at all. The film has a nice exposure, a good mix of light to dark. I don't dilute the developer and have never had any effect like this and have developed many prints the exact same way I developed this one.

The contact frame is brand new and the paper and neg were pressed very tightly against each other, no way it was not touching on some spots and not others, just not possible with this contact frame. I am going to take another shot and see if I get the same problems. Actually I am going to try printing another shot from this negative first, and see what happens. The problem could very well be from developing the neg wrong, this was my first attempt but like I said in the post I cannot see these splotches on the neg.

My first thought is you need more agitation.

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...when developing your film.

I've gotten marks like that making contact prints from paper negatives, and not developing the print long enough. Dilute the Dektol as per Kodak(or more for longer time to "snatch" dev.) IME that works better. It could be the way you agitate the neg during dev or fixing. Sheet film is a wee bit more finicky than roll film (IMO).

Well guys I will give a quick snyopsis of how I just developed this new shot and it turned out nice, it is washing now but looks much better and very evenly exposed.

Film: Efke 100 8X10
Exposure: f8 - 1/250
Developer: HC-110 Dilution B (1:7 from stock solution) I mixed this fresh
Stop: Kodak Indicator Stop Bath
Fix: Kodak Fixer (Says Professional on it, but not the rapid hardening stuff)

I changed the way I agitate, I put the neg in, started the timer and just lifted one end of the tray to create a "wave" in the tray. I agitated for 30sec initially then 10 sec every min for 6 min total dev time.
I put the neg in the stop for 30sec.
I put the neg in the fix for 6min, agitating for 10sec every min the same way, by lifting one end of the tray.
Neg is now washing, and I have a tray with water and photoflo ready. I will squeegee the excess off with my finger and hang it in the drying cabinet to dry. I will post a scan of a contact print from this neg once I get it done. I will follow the exact same process for printing as I have for all my other prints that have worked perfectly in the past.

Thanks for your ideas, I think that it was a problem with uneven development due to my agitation method, I really like the lifting the tray, create a wave method, easily repeatable and limited worry about scratching the neg. OH and I only develop one at a time of 8X10, I may do two at a time with 5X7 since I can keep them apart in the tray easily.

You should standardize your print developing time. Dektol calls for 90 seconds. You pulled the print too early because it was "going dark." Cut down on your exposure in the enlarger, then develop the paper to finality. I use the same kind of print developer timer as used by E. Weston. I call it a "gravity actuated, silicon-based, analog, fixed-interval timing device." He called it an egg timer.

what john and rick said ...

whenever i make prints
i flip the paper a bunch of times
( about 6 ) and then agitate it in the developer
to make sure it is evenly and fully developing.


good luck !
john

Try to keep the temperatures of all film process solutions the same (including the wash water). I have seen reticulation on Efke film when I got my wash water too cold.

I use the digitaltruth.com development chart unless I already have a known good time/temp for a film/dev combo, I do expose to time on the enlarger and then dev to finality, but when the exposure was 3 sec taking it out of the dev and stopping it 10 sec early is not going to kill anyone, my exposure times are generally between 10-20 sec depending on the neg, filter and aperture combination used but with contact printing I may have to go as short as 1-2 sec to get a good exposure, I could close down the aperture but it would be for light control only. If a 1-2 sec exposure is still too long that is what I will do, just stop the lens down a couple of stops.

Why would you flip the paper? The light sensitive material is only on one side, flipping it will not change anything, as long as you are moving it in the developer to insure that fresh developer is in contact with the print and you are not keeping your fingers in exactly the same spot the whole time moving it back and forth either horizontally or laterally will do the exact same thing. By taking it out of the developer you are in fact taking the developer away from the print for the sec or two it takes to flip it, that would only serve to increase dev time.

What is reticulation? I do try to keep my wash water right at 68-72F, it is generally at room temp at I have a archival print washer and do not dump it out every time I print. I do dump it every now and then but the chemicals sink to the bottom of the tank and are forced out by water entering the top of the tank. For film washing (other than 8X10) I use running water into the tank and get it to the right temp with my thermometer before putting the tank under the faucet.

Thanks all for your help!

Why would you flip the paper?

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I flip the print because a very experienced printer that I apprenticed with made me do this when developing his prints. I had made prints for years on my own, but when he saw me scooting the print around in the tray he emphasized that I should pick up that print, flip it, and keep it moving with healthy agitation—a good habit, he insisted. I think it is good for developer to flow off the surface of the print and really keep it moving. Probably more so when developing a stack of prints at a time, which we would often do after working out the exposure details for a given negative. I have no scientific proof but his prints were proof enough. Still, there are many ways to do a fine job.

jmcd said:

Probably more so when developing a stack of prints at a time, which we would often do after working out the exposure details for a given negative. I have no scientific proof but his prints were proof enough. Still, there are many ways to do a fine job.

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I guess if you are doing more than one print it could be beneficial, I never do more than one though...

Are you sure it's not the neg...
have you ever tried a pre wet of your film?

When I was learning with 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 Efke I experienced uneven development and my mentor advised a 1 to 2 minute prewet in sodium metaborate solution.

It fix the uneven development of my negs.

photobizzz said:

I guess if you are doing more than one print it could be beneficial, I never do more than one though...

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Random agitation is facilitated by flipping the print. Moreover, it reduces the time the print is under the safelight. Do it.

Looks to me like the time I waaay over exposed paper and developed too short to compensate - not enough time to even agitate ...

nick mulder said:

Looks to me like the time I waaay over exposed paper and developed too short to compensate - not enough time to even agitate ...

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Yup.

Well the exposure time was 3 seconds for that print - too long? Well what I did this time is I used a 1.5 filter, closed the aperture to f11, exposed for 10sec.

I developed in full strength Dektol for 1 min, same as I always do (50sec-1min), 30 sec in stop, 2 min in Fix with agitation. I did try the flip the print method as several of you like it so I said why not. Don't know if it had any effect on the finished print because my problem was with uneven developing of the negative. Other than flipping the print I did nothing different than I did last night with the blotchy contact print thus I eliminated the print side of the equation, and after closer inspection with a loupe I could see where on my first negative the blotchy look came from. So here is my second attempt at tray development of an 8X10 negative came out good. Lifting the tray to create a small "wave" in the tray fixed my uneven development problem, I had no other problems with my process but I thank everyone who contributed their methods.

If you can see a little banding in the scan that is from my crappy flatbed scanner - not on the negative or contact print (I would rather invest my money in other things than a good scanner, lol)

BTW: if you think the image is soft; it is. This image was shot with a 14" Petzval with no aperture - it is f7 at infinity but I measure from the lens' midpoint to the film plane and divide by two to get my working aperture which for this shot was f8.5 but I calculated for f11 since the shutter is a Packard and in actuality the fastest shutter speed I can get is maybe 1/30, I just squeeze really hard and hope the film latitude can take up the rest. I plan on buying a ND filter to place inside the camera on the back of the Packard shutter to help with this issue. I would prefer to buy a filter for the front of the lens but the size is approx. 68mm. I have tried a 67mm filter and no dice so I will probably buy a big enough filter to cover the 3.5" hole and use velcro to attach it to the back of the shutter so I will be able to shoot with other lenses wide open as well.

Colin, when I was first learning to print, I was taught to place the print face down onto the developer to avoid uneven developing lines. Experience has since shown that full development to whichever time the paper mfg. shows will eliminate the problem. Ilfords instruction sheet shows that RC papers need one to two minutes development, while FB need two to three mins in the soup.
The other part of the equation, is exposure time for prints. Contact prints traditionally are done under low watt bare bulb for much longer times(to allow D&B) . Exposing for 30 seconds up to a full minute would be (IMO) ideal times to achieve this. I understand that someone will poo-poo this and claim those times were needed for Azo, but these times are in line with how I expose for enlarged machine made prints.
My conclusion is, you are overexposing, and underdeveloping, your prints. I'm sure the oldsters out there see that as well.

I've found that simply getting a good wave going in the tray to initially cover the paper completely negates any advantages from the upside-down flip-it game. I tend to use larger trays just for this reason.