Consolidating to Leica? or keep the Nikon?

Ian David · Mar 15, 2010

clayne said:
At the risk of sounding arrogant, both Eddy and myself are capable of offering photography that shows we're beyond the camera used. The entire point is that the combined cost of those cameras (MP+M9) could buy a lot of film for someone who wants to imprint something useful on it.

It is a pretty common assumption/assertion that the "true artist" doesn't care a fig for his tools, provided they will perform the job that he requires of them. But, if you can afford it, choosing or enjoying your tools for additional reasons beyond pure functionality (eg aesthetics, manufacturer values, etc) is not necessarily inconsistent with being or becoming master of your art.

It is nice that you consider yourself "beyond the camera used" but the implied criticism of the OP is a touch arrogant.

The Hermes MP is expensive, but it is a high quality camera and a beautiful object. Lots of people who would instinctively object to that expense in a camera (which will last a lifetime) would readily drop just as much cash on unnecessary optional extras every time they upgrade to a boring new car. (Or, due to regular attacks of GAS, actually have much more cash tied up in large collections of under-used cameras and lenses.)

Should the OP buy a Holga and send the difference in price to a struggling artist somewhere?

Ian

gamincurieux · Mar 15, 2010

clayne said:
The entire point is that the combined cost of those cameras (MP+M9) could buy a lot of film for someone who wants to imprint something useful on it.

Go buy your own film...... Dude!!!!

clayne · Mar 15, 2010

snaggs said:
Had a look at some of the photo's on your site, lovely.

And of course you are right about not needing expensive camera's, one of my best photo's was taken with a demo plastic F65 I bought on clearance.

However, now that I have a choice;

I like to buy things which are made by people
I like old world construction
I'm against the destruction of first the english and now european and american manufacturing.

Wherever I have an option to buy a locally made shirt etc, I will boycott made in China.

Leica is the embodiment of historic manufacturing values, Nikon used to as well, before they put into retirement their AIS manufacturing team.

The reason I'm now buying Leica, is Nikon will never transition MF and old world build quality into digital. It won't be sitting in the box.

Daniel.

Daniel, I'm with you on the China thing - but don't play into Leica's marketing tactics. Things like limited edition and x edition Leicas are designed for collectors and other non-photographers. Buy an M6, M4, M2, whatever, just buy a decent Leica and be done with it.

Oh, and do NOT get rid of the SLR. Rangefinders can't handle everything, e.g. I couldn't imagine using my RF for ultra-wide stuff or anything involving a telephoto (which honestly I use rarely). I always have an M4 and an F3. Occasionally either/or, but RFs are definitely not to the exclusion of SLRs.

gamincurieux · Mar 15, 2010

That's much better.

haris · Mar 15, 2010

Clayne said it right. Why Hermes MP, why not "plain" MP? As much as new Hermes is more expensive than "plain" MP, that much secondhand is too. Or not, secondhand could be even more expensive as those are made as clayne sad for collectors, and add nothing to functionality. I am sure that for price of secondhand Hermes for example 5 years old MP you can buy regular 2 years old MP, send it in Solms to CLA, checking and repairing if something need to be repaired, all that for price of Hermes. Don't forget, when buying secondhand RF cameras it is good practice to send it to CLA. SLR you may or may not, but RF should be sent to CLA. And, that cost a bit if it is done at authorized place. Add that cost to price of camera and Hermes by mine opinion is not reasonable decision if you are interested only in functional Leica. If you are interested in looks of camera and/or status as much as in functionality, then buy Hermes. In fact, if you can afford, buy new Hermes. But if you just manage to get money for secondhand Leica, then regular, younger, CLA'd and checked/repired MP by mine opinion is better choice.

And, wouldn't be better to buy regular MP, add a little and to buy another (Leica) lens instead of Hermes?

Whatever you decide, good luck.

Micky · Mar 15, 2010

hermes mp....waste of money IMO. in fact, if i were you i would stay away from a film leica altogether. you're only going to realise how much money you just blew on an m9 that takes inferior images to even that of a 50 year old m3. sorry don't mean to be rude, but that is my honest opinion. only you can decide whether to go for the leica film cameras, because only you know which type of camera you will work best with. atm, i'm considering selling one of my m's to get a rolleiflex. and i had an f4 which i wish i still had. so don't rush into anything, try the m9 and then upgrade to a film m if the rangefinder's are for you.

haris · Mar 15, 2010

When decided to buy 35mm RF I kept my 35 SLR and MF equipment and instead of Leica I went to Voigtlaender Bessa R2A. What I want to say, there is option to have it all

gamincurieux · Mar 15, 2010

Micky said:
hermes mp....waste of money IMO. in fact, if i were you i would stay away from a film leica altogether. you're only going to realise how much money you just blew on an m9 that takes inferior images to even that of a 50 year old m3. sorry don't mean to be rude, but that is my honest opinion. only you can decide whether to go for the leica film cameras, because only you know which type of camera you will work best with. atm, i'm considering selling one of my m's to get a rolleiflex. and i had an f4 which i wish i still had. so don't rush into anything, try the m9 and then upgrade to a film m if the rangefinder's are for you.

Micky, I wouldn't say you were being rude at all. You've given your fair & honest opinion. It is the now-polite Clayne who has historically displayed the manners of a goat time & time again, not just on this thread but on many others, mine included. It's almost a ridiculous caricature of some frustrated intellectual with no patience for the stupid things he's reading, and he's going to let us know that it's stupid in no uncertain terms. What it is is outrageously rude. The PM's I've received over the last couple of days are testament to that. You can't behave like that in public with people you don't know without consequences I know I'd rather avoid, so why should anyone see fit to behave like that here? To be fair, his last comment is a complete turn-around. Great!

So Daniel, I hope all the other info in this thread has given you some food for thought re Leicas

clayne · Mar 15, 2010

gamincurieux said:
Micky, I wouldn't say you were being rude at all. You've given your fair & honest opinion. It is the now-polite Clayne who has historically displayed the manners of a goat time & time again, not just on this thread but on many others, mine included. It's almost a ridiculous caricature of some frustrated intellectual with no patience for the stupid things he's reading, and he's going to let us know that it's stupid in no uncertain terms. What it is is outrageously rude. The PM's I've received over the last couple of days are testament to that. You can't behave like that in public with people you don't know without consequences I know I'd rather avoid, so why should anyone see fit to behave like that here? To be fair, his last comment is a complete turn-around. Great!

So Daniel, I hope all the other info in this thread has given you some food for thought re Leicas

If your hobby is keeping tabs on me - you seriously need a new one. Additionally, if you think I'm the first person to fire off an opinionated post on here, then you're also quite unobservant.

Not everyone is here to pander to or enable bad habits - and that's the part that you miss in your efforts to promote world photographic peace. In case you didn't notice, the art of photography also isn't the paragon of quality right now either.

Honestly, have you taken into account just how many times we read threads like this here and other places ("What should I do with X cameras I own")? Or how entire forums (RFF) seem to thrive off of chasing certain camera body mini-fortunes and they don't seem to be driven from photographic pursuits. The goals of most expensive, most rare, most illustrious, most different, etc. are the type of goals that digital people follow these days, where most things can just be bought if one has enough money. If you think that people shouldn't speak up about it, that's your opinion - but others have the right to bring up issue with it.

gamincurieux · Mar 15, 2010

I don't keep tabs on you Dude, no need to look for you, I can hardly look at any thread without seeing one of your classic posts. No, you're not the only nasty piece of work here, but you're the one I come across again & again. Is it your responsibility to be replying, in your oh-so-special way, to each thread that bugs you? If you don't like what's being asked don't answer it! Practically by your own admission you're going out of your way to be nasty to people, I'm sure of it.

SuzanneR · Mar 15, 2010

The tone here is getting a little ridiculous, let's cool off a bit, and remember, the ignore function is an excellent tool. Round of beers on me.

snaggs · Mar 20, 2010

Thanks for all the responses, I was only allowed to buy another lens for the M9 if I sold all my other gear, so I just put it all on ebay, including my 5000 ED scanner!

The upside, is I just bought a 75mm V2 Summilux to ease the pain.

Packing the FM3a and F6 was painfull though

Daniel.

PS. I bought a cheap Rollei 35RF (like Bessa 2) film body for the occasional B&W.

Micky · Mar 20, 2010

i've tried my 1.4/75mm on the m8 and had some backfocus issues...how is your sample?

Jedidiah Smith · Mar 20, 2010

Brave choice, my man, but you stuck to your guns. Time will tell if it was the right move - I for one have bounced around through tons of gear, and there are some I wish I never bought, and more I wish I ne er sold. . .
But, in the end all that matters is that it gets used and doesn't sit on a shelf somewhere! So bravo to your choice, and we'll be looking for some photos in the future.
Jed

2F/2F · Mar 20, 2010

This whole thread sounds REALLY expensive.....and impressive. :rolleyes:

IMO: Get the expensive cameras to fondle, and sell the Nikon stuff to people who will shoot it. No need to waste Nikon stuff on a high-end Leica user.

snaggs · Mar 20, 2010

Jedidiah Smith said:
Brave choice, my man, but you stuck to your guns. Time will tell if it was the right move - I for one have bounced around through tons of gear, and there are some I wish I never bought, and more I wish I ne er sold. . .
But, in the end all that matters is that it gets used and doesn't sit on a shelf somewhere! So bravo to your choice, and we'll be looking for some photos in the future.
Jed

Yes! Just in time for 2 weeks in france with my wife "sans enfants"

I'll be very curious to compare shots taken with the 75 lux vs the 85mm nikon, its got some big shoes to fill.

Daniel.

Micky · Mar 20, 2010

the 1.4/75mm is my favourite lens out of all my systems owned, past and present. your 85mm won't stand a chance.

clayne · Mar 20, 2010

Eveb as a leica user myself I have to call bs on the 85 not standing a chance. Leica lenses are excellent but they aren't the only people to throw some good glass together.

Micky · Mar 20, 2010

Clayne, I wasn't generalising, I have shot extensively with both lenses and that has been my experience. it's always going to be a tall order for a modern retrofocus design to stand up to a modern normal lens.

clayne · Mar 20, 2010

"Won't stand a chance" denotes a huge difference. I'm not saying there won't be differences, but they won't be "just throw the other lens away" differences, is all.

snaggs · Mar 20, 2010

So the Summilux 75 isn't a typical telephoto? I did read somewhere a comment that it was just a long normal?

Daniel.

elekm · Mar 20, 2010

I think the decision to consolidate to one brand is a call that you must make by yourself. The advantage is that you can focus your efforts on one camera or one line of cameras.

I think that it's also useful to have an SLR system, because the flexibility of an SLR can be very useful in certain types of photography.

I tend to agree that some of the models that Leica has produced are aimed solely at either the collector or those who enjoy showing off their wealth. Again, that's a decision for you to make. Not my thing, but if I had a hoard of cash, I wouldn't think twice about buying a Hermes edition.

nolanr66 · Mar 21, 2010

Well it is all a big money decision for sure. All I can say is that a person should look to their future in photography and build a system that is capable of achieving that end. Only you can decide what you need to do. However take my advice with a grain of salt as I am very happy with a Nikon N80. The camera has no "Wow" factor at all. Sometimes when I tell people what I shoot they look like they just smelled garlic. I am sure the M9 + MP will bring a very different response. LOL, it should bring the "OMG" response.. It's beautiful gear you are buying for sure. Good luck with it.

cheuwi · Mar 21, 2010

keep everything except the 28mm PC and 45mm AI-P
What you have is probably the last F from Nikon in the F6 and the last mechanical/electronic Nikon!!!

sepiareverb · Mar 21, 2010

Unless you are into any close-up type work I'd say go for it. I made a similar switch about four years ago and haven't regretted it one bit. Finally sold off most of the Nikon stuff I'd been keeping because I liked it so much. I hadn't used any of it in years. Not even the close-up stuff. If you've any inlking of using the PC lens keep it and a body, as that won;t be replicated in Leica, but really if it is still NIB I know I wouldn't.

I really can't believe how much better suited to my way of working the M cameras are. I wish now I'd made the change 20 years ago.

Consolidating to Leica? or keep the Nikon?

haris

haris

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency