Considering Bronica

yessammassey said:

I guess if I could avoid having to take off the back or eating a frame, that's OK. But the SQ has an option for automatic mirror return after firing the shutter with MLU for one frame, right? (Ed - Right)

That may put the SQ back into the running. The GS. may be too cumbersome for one of my most common practices.

Ed- But what I still don't understand is how the bulb mode on the shutter speed dial relates to the T mode on the lens.

Click to expand...

The SQ-A has two MLU settings, single frame--where the mirror flips down when you advance--and continuous--where it stays up as you advance. I don't think either really help you if you decide you need another meter reading after MLU. You need to make the mirror come down to let light into the prism without advancing. You can probably do this by shooting with the lens cap on, engaging the multiple exposure lever, then cranking. The GS-1 is probably the same.

When using a lens in T mode, you set any shutter speed other than B.

I now understand that the GS-1 has all the features I could ask for: AE lock, MLU, B, T, and up to 16sec metered auto exposure. Wonderful. Coming from an RB67 with WLF, the GS-1 would be so much more flexible for field use.

I am looking at one that comes with speed grip, flash, rotating AE finder, and 50mm lens. With the exception of the flash (which would probably be more useful with a normal/short tele) it could be everything I need for street scene and landscape photography, while the RB67 with 127 and/or 180 handles portrait, tele, and closeup (together what I call 'subject-oriented') work.

However. Maybe it's just because of all the options I've been looking at, and the amount of time I've spent immersing myself in the MF camera market (to the point where I've bought & returned more than a handful of lenses and cameras.. all for functional defects, mind), it feels redundant to get another 6x7 SLR, even though the use case will be so different. But..

I think a Mamiya 7 would be too dear. I would die if it was broken or stolen.

A Fuji GSW690 would be too slow and cumbersome (no meter, no B mode)

I have a Fuji GL690, but returned all the lenses because they were degraded & decentered. Waiting to find a good condition 50mm and AE 100mm, but there's no indication that either will be coming around on the market soon.

Koni-Omega Rapid & Mamiya Press both appeal to me, but I know better. (Same issues as the 6x9 Fujis)

Hasselblad and SQ both offer portability and ergonomics I like, but aren't as "full featured" (for my specific use case) as the GS-1, and I swear that there's something about the lenses that actually make the images too crisp for my liking. (This is also a concern for the GS, but it doesn't seem as pronounced with the PG lenses from what I've seen.)

I like the traditional layout of the Pentax 67, but I rate the availability of AE over lens selection, as long as I can get one nice wide angle for the Bronica. A P67ii with AE prism doesn't fit into my budget any better than a Mamiya 7, so the cheaper metered GS-1 wins out.

... And then there was the Mamiya 6. It's light, has AE, and lenses that render beautifully to my eye. But it's only 6x6, where 50mm (its widest) isn't hitting the sweet spot focal length for me. I'd have to be very careful with it, and it still stretches my budget to the max.

I guess I'll have to think about it for a minute, but the GS-1 I'm eyeing will disappear soon. Sorry to stray so far from the topic, but I figure it's better to hem and haw in my own thread than clutter up the forum with another thread about nothing but my personal indecision.

RichardJack said:

I recently found a 180mm PS for $130 in beautiful shape, they are out there. I haven't shot any frames with it yet, hopefully will this weekend. It is only slightly shorter than my 200PS. I wish Bronica made it F3.5 instead of the slow f4.5. I don't do much close up work but when I do I use the CUL1 (close-up lens). I use to carry that to weddings for the "hands and rings" shots. I own the 110mm f4 macro, wish I knew of the 110mm f4.5 macro before I bought mine. The f4 is barely 1:4 while the f4.5 is 1:1. There is a f4.5 on EBay now but I think they want $350+. My 135mm f4 PS gets just as close as my 110 f4.
I had a laugh about the remark about the noise the S2 made in church. I shot my first weddings with a S2A, and the thunk from that camera woke everyone who was dozing off in church up. I never had a priest complain but I got looks often. Flash photography was more of an issue in the past, some churches didn't allow it. I'd have to bring the bridal party back in after the ceremony and reshoot what I missed. Most of my shots were taken with the 75mm F2.8 NIkkor PC and 50mm f2.8 Nikkor O. When I switched over to the SQ-A (because of 1/500 flash synch and a brighter finder) I missed my 50mm Nikkor, my 50mm S Zenzanon was not sharp.
Sorry for rambling on, I could talk(type) all day about these wonderful cameras.

Click to expand...

I'll give you $140 for the lens!

I've been using the 110 F3.5 for anything that requires a portrait. Yes, you have to get closer, but at least it has a decent minimum focal distance.

As you have also said, the 135 is another good choice, but they are not that easy to find either.

My biggest issue has been with lenses - out of the 4 that I own for the system, 3 of them have failed in some form or another. Two (50mm and 80mm) of them had sticking shutters. They would fire at all speeds except 1/500th, where they would stick. The other (150mm) would not fire the flash. I could have bought more of the same, but I decided to have the 50 and 80 serviced. I replaced the 150 with the 110, because of the minimum focus distance limitation. I'll probably look at another 150, unless I can get a 180 at a reasonable price).

hoffy said:

I'll probably look at another 150, unless I can get a 180 at a reasonable price).

Click to expand...

There's also the X2 converter available. There are obviously drawbacks to using a converter, and I'm not sure what the closest focussing distance of the 80 + X2 is, but it's usually a lot cheaper than a 180 and could be useful with the other lenses too.

Just a thought...

klownshed said:

There's also the X2 converter available. There are obviously drawbacks to using a converter, and I'm not sure what the closest focussing distance of the 80 + X2 is, but it's usually a lot cheaper than a 180 and could be useful with the other lenses too.

Just a thought...

Click to expand...

One of the neat things about pairing a tele-converter with a lens is that generally the closest focus distance of the lens is the closest focust distance of the combination.

It can be a very flexible way of adding close(r) focus capability.

klownshed said:

There's also the X2 converter available.

Click to expand...

As you said, there are draw backs. I've never really been a fan of converters.

I do have, though, an extension tube which I plan to use on the 150. Sure, I'll loose a touch of light, but at least I don't have another unmatched glass element in the path.

I have one that I use on ocassionaly with the 250 mm lens on my Etrsi . With a tripod and mirror lock up
it gives a reasonable reach with out paying through the nose for the 500 mm lens. Peter

I scooped up that GS-1 I was posting about. Price was good. It came with the 50, and I've got a lot of plans for that lens as I've been hunting for a good ~24mm equivalent for a while now. Until this point, I've only held on to 24mm lenses for 35mm SLRs and digital cameras. As long as this Zenzanon is half-decent (and most importantly not de-centered or misaligned), it could become my go-to wide angle camera for use in the field.

I guess this is the point where I get ready for people to tell me that the 50 isn't really that great and that the 65 is better. That was my experience with the RB67. In fact the difference between the Sekor C 50 and the Sekor K/L 65 was so drastic that I returned the 50 outright.

My 50mm is much better than my 65mm. Load up some film and go shoot.

Hi All,
I got a chance to get out and shoot a few frames with my SQ-A last weekend. They were my first images with my 180mm & 135mm. I'm very pleased but wish I chose a faster film than Ilford Pan F+, I found myself not having enough DOF. IMO the 180mm at infinity is about the same as the 200 PS (but 3x as costly), it's close focus ability makes it special. But, the 135mm is just as good and focuses just as close. I can't say there is a PS or S Zenzanon that I don't like.
The last few images of this album: http://www.pbase.com/rick_jack/bronica

Good luck with your GS-1! Compared to a ETRS, it's a monster, but a beauty. My only peeve is the lenses are so large. My 50mm and 250mm are huge (being use to 6x6). I carry my mono pod along.

Speaking of 645, I found a ERTS EII 500mm for $200 and it's on it's way. I'll post some test shots when it arrives. I missed one for the SQ that was "Buy it Now" for $299, I should of pulled the trigger before someone else did.

Be patience, check the new listings every day. Often something good is posted for too cheap as Buy it Now and it does not last. I've grabbed many items that way.
regards,
Rick

^ Boy that's quite a deal you got on that 500 mm lens ! Peter

I've had all the early Bronicas and currently have the EC-TLII and many nice lenses. It has automatic aperture priority auto exposure, which is a first in a medium format SLR and VERY useful. Just set the aperture and shoot away. The lenses are in fact much smaller than other systems due to the mirror setup. In fact, my 40mm, 50mm, 75mm, 80mm and 100mm are all within about 1/4-1/2 inch in length and very small indeed, and all my lenses from 40mm to 200mm use the same filter size and caps (67mm). The 150mm and 200mm are not too big either. The EC is the only model that is not ridiculously loud with shutter/mirror slap. The others sound like a small gun going off. The EC is not much louder if any than the Hasselblad 500cm. The system also has other merits including the backs disconnecting with pressure on the dark slide, dark slide holder built-in, always open viewfinder (in the 500cm you have to wind it to open it) among other things. It is a great system with amazing Nikkor and Zenzanon lenses with large apertures and all at a bargain price nowadays. Bob.

RichardJack said:

Hi All,
I got a chance to get out and shoot a few frames with my SQ-A last weekend. They were my first images with my 180mm & 135mm. I'm very pleased but wish I chose a faster film than Ilford Pan F+, I found myself not having enough DOF. IMO the 180mm at infinity is about the same as the 200 PS (but 3x as costly), it's close focus ability makes it special. But, the 135mm is just as good and focuses just as close. I can't say there is a PS or S Zenzanon that I don't like.
The last few images of this album: http://www.pbase.com/rick_jack/bronica

Good luck with your GS-1! Compared to a ETRS, it's a monster, but a beauty. My only peeve is the lenses are so large. My 50mm and 250mm are huge (being use to 6x6). I carry my mono pod along.

Speaking of 645, I found a ERTS EII 500mm for $200 and it's on it's way. I'll post some test shots when it arrives. I missed one for the SQ that was "Buy it Now" for $299, I should of pulled the trigger before someone else did.

Be patience, check the new listings every day. Often something good is posted for too cheap as Buy it Now and it does not last. I've grabbed many items that way.
regards,
Rick

Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing. I've done a lot of the same kind of stuff as what you've posted on pbase, just with 35mm. I expect that the GS will be huge of course (96mm filter size on the 50mm!), but am hoping to use it similarly as a walk-around camera in addition to a tripod-based landscape machine. It just has to be a little bit more portable than an RB67.

I'll be watching to see if you post any results from the 500. What a find.

nanthor said:

I've had all the early Bronicas and currently have the EC-TLII and many nice lenses. It has automatic aperture priority auto exposure, which is a first in a medium format SLR and VERY useful. Just set the aperture and shoot away. The lenses are in fact much smaller than other systems due to the mirror setup. In fact, my 40mm, 50mm, 75mm, 80mm and 100mm are all within about 1/4-1/2 inch in length and very small indeed, and all my lenses from 40mm to 200mm use the same filter size and caps (67mm). The 150mm and 200mm are not too big either. The EC is the only model that is not ridiculously loud with shutter/mirror slap. The others sound like a small gun going off. The EC is not much louder if any than the Hasselblad 500cm. The system also has other merits including the backs disconnecting with pressure on the dark slide, dark slide holder built-in, always open viewfinder (in the 500cm you have to wind it to open it) among other things. It is a great system with amazing Nikkor and Zenzanon lenses with large apertures and all at a bargain price nowadays. Bob.

Click to expand...

Wow. I didn't know that any of the Bronicas from that generation had AE! I think I'm going to be happy with this GS, but that's a very fine-looking system. Really very beautiful. I've decided that 6x7 is the format I want to be using right now but I'm going to remember this.

^ Be very careful saying things like that !!!!!!!!!!!! Peter

Oh, I should also mention that the AE function is in-body so it works with all the finders, shown in the case are the WLF, 45 degree, and chimney with diopter adjustment. Again, not bad for a very old system. Bob.

moto-uno said:

^ Be very careful saying things like that !!!!!!!!!!!! Peter

Click to expand...

I must not have GAS. GAS is the checking account killer....

I will face my GAS. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it is gone I will turn my inner eye to see its path. Where the GAS has gone there will be no more cameras that I want to buy. Only I will remain, broke.

I know I have GAS.

Bronica made "S" and "PS" 1.4x & 2x teleconverters. I personally don't like them or use them. I'd go for a "PS" converter, they are better made.

IMO, metering with the older EC-TL is superior to the newer cameras. It was a smarter design putting the silicon blue cells in the body instead of the finders. It not only kept the cost and size of the finders down, you always had a meter regardless of your finder choice. The older series also had 1/1000 sec. Because of the metering and the 1/1000 this camera is my choice for 6x6 landscape and handheld photography. But, the older bodies were not as good for weddings, studio, and situations requiring fill flash because of their slow (1/40-1/60) flash synch.

On my calendar is a shootout between lenses of the same focal length. Nothing fancy, just a few evenly lit NBS test charts and exposures at wide open and f8 from each lens using Kodak TMY2 (the film I use in the field). Just for my own personal curiosity, no MTF curves or anything scientific. On my list are:
75mm, Nikon PC vs Nikon HC vs Zenzanon EII (ETRS)
80mm, Zenzanon f2.4 MC vs Zeiss f2,8 DDR vs Zenzanon f3.5 S vs Zenzanon f3.5 PS
50mm, Nikon f2.8 O vs Zenzanon f2.8 MC (EC) vs Zenzanon f2.8 MC (ETRS)
150mm, Zenzanon f3.5 MC (EC) vs Zenzanon f3.5 S vs Zenzanon f4 PS
40mm, Nikon f4 D, Zenzanon f4 PS, Zenzanon f4 MC (ETRS)
200mm, f4 Nikon PC, Zenzanon f4.5 PS, Zenzanon f4.5 MC (ETRS)

I have to buy some more film first and wait for a day that I'm stuck at home with nothing to do. If anything at all, this will be fun.
Testing lenses was one of my jobs when I worked for Olympus camera. I will be using Chimney finders and the biggest factor here is my vision. I'll throw in some of my best Nikon primes on my DSLR while I'm at it. Come spring if there are any ties (which I highly suspect) I will do a field test.

I'll keep you posted.
Rick

The Zeiss DDR 80/2.8 doesn't fit on any of the. Bronicas, does it?

That wasn't very well-worded. Obviously it's not going to fit on one of the lens shutter systems, but the early focal plane cameras? I hear there are third-party lenses for those. (I guess technically even the first-party lenses were third-party in the early days with the Nikkors.)

I know there was some Japanese camera company that contracted with Zeiss Jena for a few lenses at some point... I remember reading a wiki article that said as much, at least. But I can't remember the specifics.

Anyway, I popped back in here to report that the GS-1 is now in my hands. I have a roll of Delta 100 that I ran through and developed yesterday. Now it's time to scan the film and and find out if this thing functions as well as it looks.

The body and lens both seem to be in good condition. One thing that I really like is the absense of light seal foam from around any mating surfaces. A sign of good manufacturing tolerances, and sure enough I can't see any signs of light leaks on the negs (I've had issues with light leaks on my RB67). Loading film into the insert is also a comparative breeze. The focusing screen and finder are a little darker than the Mamiya's, though. All put together with the 50mm lens, AE finder, film back and speed grip, it weighs about as much as the RB67 with 90mm, WLF, rotating film back and left hand grip. More compact, though, and better-handling. Sadly, this GS-1 kit did not include a WLF, or even a dang film advance lever, so I'm stuck with the speed grip for now, especially since accessories & pieces for this camera seem pretty hard to find. But strip the finder and grip off of the GS-1 and you've got a very light piece of kit compared to the RB.

^ So , I'm wondering how this kit worked out for you ? It's been begging for a follow up .
Cheers , Peter

I used Bronica SQ for about 20 years. It's a great system and the lenses are perfectly sharp and contrasty. The backs are the real weakness of this system. You can be rolling along just fine and WHOOPS, light leaks, bad ones.

The system is also been discontinued for quite some time. If I didn't already have a Hassy system, I would be looking at Mamiya TLR, or even a Rollei.

In the last decade of his life, Paul Strand shot with a Mamiya TLR, and of course most of Diane Arbus' work was shot on this system, so you'd be in fine company.

ParkerSmithPhoto said:

I used Bronica SQ for about 20 years. It's a great system and the lenses are perfectly sharp and contrasty. The backs are the real weakness of this system. You can be rolling along just fine and WHOOPS, light leaks, bad ones.

Click to expand...

Every brand has it most common point of need for repairs, and like Bronica the weak point of a Hasselblad is its backs. From Petapixel article March 2017

wiltw said:

Every brand has it most common point of need for repairs, and like Bronica the weak point of a Hasselblad is its backs. From Petapixel article March 2017

"the backs were the weakest part of the system, prone to light leaks, frame spacing issues, or jams. They would ruin a shoot without warning and carrying at least one spare was absolutely essential. You could pick one up for less than the cost of having them serviced, but ran the risk that a second/third/fourth/fifth hand back would just develop its own faults.

Light leaks were the most common issue due to the foam seals that are placed at the dark slide slot, and these could be replaced with little effort. You needed to do this at least once every other year depending on how you stored the camera/backs, but they could still suddenly ruin a frame or two without notice in bright light. I developed a habit of storing my backs with the dark slides out as much as possible in an attempt to preserve the foam seals for longer."​

Click to expand...

Whenever I buy a new used film back for my Hasselblads I always first send them out for a CLA and replace the light traps. I recommend do that for all brands of film backs. Why loose several rolls of film and then find out there was a problem? Besides once on of several backs goes bad, exactly which back is the bad one?

The Bronica SQ backs use a thin stainless steel "blade" as the darkslide seal. It's very easy to remove and bend if needed. There may be conventional rubber seals elsewhere in the back however.