Considering a move from Hasselblad 501CM to Pentax 645 or Contax 645?

RalphLambrecht · Jul 3, 2016

ted_smith said:
I have not decided for sure to sell my Hasselblad 501CM, so please don't abondon me yet, fellow Hasselblad users, as a lost cause. But I am considering it, and am seeking fellow APUG'ers wisdom and consult.

I've owned my 501CM for several years. I have an 80mm, 120mm and 150mm CZ lens and 2 x A12 backs with matching inserts. It has an Acutte Matt D WLF screen. I have shot some amazing photos with it and was surprised at the simplicity of it overall once I got used to it and really do love the camera. I had it serviced just a few weeks ago as well.

But I continue to be plagued by focus problems. I shot a wedding with it recently and although I got several nice shots with the Blad, I got a lot of failed ones because of focus problems. Either my inability to get it right or due to last-second movements of the subjects for which I was too slow to respond to. If it weren't for my use of my Nikon F5 in addition to the Blad, the wedding couple would not have the selection they have now. In addition, I photograph my kids a lot, and they too, all too often, result in focus failures with the occasional stunning shot where everything was bang on.

So I am mulling over selling it\exchanging it for a MF camera that can auto-focus in the hope I get more 'keepers'. I still want the benefit of big bright negatives, and the feeling of using MF cameras with awesome high quality lenses and the visual stunning'ness of MF. I just want to be able to get more of my shots in focus under quick or time critical situations without losing them due to focus problems.

I am looking at either a Contax 645 or a Pentax 645N. Both are, I gather, very reuptable brands of medium format, and both can auto-focus. And I know that Jose Villa (great wedding photographer from the USA) uses a Contax 645 a lot. I'm also curious to know what the lens quality is like for these compared to the CZ lenses for Hasselblad?

What are your thoughts? Would any of you do the same or would you just stick with the Blad and just keep trying?

AF capability and availability of digital backs are worth considering a switch but there is always a Nikon D800 which offers both with exceptional image quality.Keep your Blad if you love it. I love mine and couldn't stand to miss them

Richard S. (rich815) · Jul 3, 2016

Alan Gales said:
Why don't you pick up a Pentax 645 N or Nll with the 75mm FA lens and try it out. If you buy right and later decide to sell it you won't get burned. Consider any small monetary loss as a cheap rental fee.

Photographers swear by the Mamiya C220 and C330 TLR cameras. I've never owned a TLR so I recently decided to try a C220. I really like it except that the focussing screen is a little dim indoors. My eyes are not the best either. I decided to buy a C220F which comes with a brighter focussing screen and so far it seems to be fine. I just shot a roll of Portra of some of my family that was in town. Indoors I could see the focus snap. I plan on turning the roll in for development this afternoon so I have not seen the results yet.

Sometimes the best answer is to actually try something for yourself.

I'd change "sometimes" to "oftentimes", especially since if you buy smartly in the used market you can usually sell later for same or only slightly less than you bought.

(Problem is if you're like me you hardly ever sell!!)

markbarendt · Jul 3, 2016

ted_smith said:
I know many will say "just inc the DOF" but with a blad, I take a meter reading with the Sekonic then set the EV and generally go for about f5.6 to f8 were light will allow. Several of these were taken with my 150mm which I have since learned is almost as bad as a Macro lens for punishing DOF, but nonetheless...you see my point?

First, DOF is a universal characteristic, all 150mm lenses at f/5.6 at a given distance from a subject have essentially the same DOF. Your 150 is not any better or worse than any other 150 in this respect.
Second, when we shoot a photo we typically don't change the distance to the subject much. This means that with smaller format we naturally use shorter lenses to maintain the same angle of view, get about the same photo content.

The big difference in shooting different formats is that on the Hasselblad you might use the 150 and on the F5 you use a 75 to get the same shot, same angle of view, same framing...

A shorter focal length simply provides more DOF at f/5.6 and the same subject distance.

Part of the reason I use MF is to get shorter DOF, that intrinsically means that focus is tougher and more failures than when using my F5.

Sirius Glass · Jul 3, 2016

Have your yes checked.
Try a 45 degree prism with or without diopter correction.
Try different viewing screens with or without the prism.

Alan Gales · Jul 3, 2016

Richard S. (rich815) said:
I'd change "sometimes" to "oftentimes", especially since if you buy smartly in the used market you can usually sell later for same or only slightly less than you bought.

(Problem is if you're like me you hardly ever sell!!)

Thanks Richard. Oftentimes is the better word.

Yeah. I know what you mean. I sold film gear on Ebay for several years. I tried out gear before I sold it to make sure everything was working properly. It's easy to want to keep everything. I kept a Hasselblad for over a year just to make sure it worked properly.

ted_smith · Jul 5, 2016

Sirius : > Try a 45 degree prism with or without diopter correction

And a previous reply suggested the same. But these too are not cheap (I know everything HB is expensive, but when you don't earn a living particulryl from photography like the HB owners of old did, all these costs add up). I did some looking around and the average is about £200 to £275, just for something that may or may not help. I could spend another £250 on this and still find I have troubles. Trouble is I have no Hasselblad retailers near me to try one (live in the East Midlands of the UK, Derby area)

Richard S. (rich815) · Jul 5, 2016

ted_smith said:
Sirius : > Try a 45 degree prism with or without diopter correction

And a previous reply suggested the same. But these too are not cheap (I know everything HB is expensive, but when you don't earn a living particulryl from photography like the HB owners of old did, all these costs add up). I did some looking around and the average is about £200 to £275, just for something that may or may not help. I could spend another £250 on this and still find I have troubles. Trouble is I have no Hasselblad retailers near me to try one (live in the East Midlands of the UK, Derby area)

$59 USD BIN: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hasselblad-NC-2-45-Degree-Prism-Finder-/291791529233

And it's from KEH. With shipping just over $100 USD to the UK.

Mark Fisher · Jul 5, 2016

I had similar problems until I got a prism. Try that before you give up. I like the 45 deg prisms (NC-2, PM45, PM5, etc). An NC 2 costs very little.

Chris Livsey · Jul 6, 2016

Richard S. (rich815) said:
$59 USD BIN: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hasselblad-NC-2-45-Degree-Prism-Finder-/291791529233

And it's from KEH. With shipping just over $100 USD to the UK.

Regrettably UK VAT will be added to that on import of 20% and a hefty fee for doing the addition as well.
The recent fall in the value of the UK pound will not help neither will the fees added to change the currency to pay KEH.

Sirius Glass · Jul 6, 2016

ted_smith said:
Sirius : > Try a 45 degree prism with or without diopter correction

And a previous reply suggested the same. But these too are not cheap (I know everything HB is expensive, but when you don't earn a living particulryl from photography like the HB owners of old did, all these costs add up). I did some looking around and the average is about £200 to £275, just for something that may or may not help. I could spend another £250 on this and still find I have troubles. Trouble is I have no Hasselblad retailers near me to try one (live in the East Midlands of the UK, Derby area)

Just fly over here to Los Angeles and you can try mine while we drive around southern California taking photographs and buying things at FreeStyle.

ted_smith · Jul 6, 2016

Urgh, this is getting so confusing...I'm extremely grateful for the advice guys.

So I've spent a while looking through prism options. Mr Fisher suggested an NC-2, which looks very promising. 3 x magnification I gather and it doesn't get in the way of changing film backs (a problem I read elsewhere on APUG re the PM45 or something?). But then it says you need to get correction lenses if you wear glasses, as I do. What is that all about? You have to get a specially made lens to match your glasses? Or am I muddled? Or would I just by this (new) correction lens for £15 to go with it : http://www.ffordes.co.uk/product/15082511471131 ??If so, how does it correct if it's just a stock lens piece? Does it just make it bigger or something?

So I've searched ffordes (out of stock) and ebay and found the following for £100 or less :

A PM5 for £95 :http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hasselbla...122626?hash=item21114c2102:g:wvYAAOSwepJXXvT6
An NC2 for £85 : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hasselbla...122626?hash=item21114c2102:g:wvYAAOSwepJXXvT6

I assume the PM5 would be recommended over the NC2 given just £10 difference, especially as it comes with the rubber eye piece, whereas the NC2 is missing it? That said, there's lots of good remarks about the NC2.

I can probably justify to the wife spending £100 on one of these if it means I get good use from my Blad. But I can't justify £250-£300, which, as Chris said, with UK import taxes and charges and so on makes abroad purchases much less economic.

And Sirius : I'd love nothing more than opportunity to go out shooting Blads with a fellow Blad lover. Sadly, "Blad get togethers" don't seem too frequent (maybe APUG'ers should organise such an event?), and as you point out, it's a long way for us to meet up!

Terry Breedlove · Jul 6, 2016

When shooting with my Hasselblad 503 or my Nikon F3 i tend to pre focus as much as possible. I also use the distance scale on the lens and a smaller aperture for more depth of field when in a more fluid environment. It help. In this shot below i was actually waiting for my nephew to reach that rock and was already focused and at the ready. Hasselblad 503 cxi with 50mm TRI-X 400 film. Not always possible but i do get an amazing amount of shots this way. Especially for street where i am pre focused at a certain distance and walking around.

Sirius Glass · Jul 6, 2016

ted_smith said:
...
I can probably justify to the wife spending £100 on one of these if it means I get good use from my Blad. But I can't justify £250-£300, which, as Chris said, with UK import taxes and charges and so on makes abroad purchases much less economic.

...

You could boost that several hundred pounds by pointing out that it would be better to buy a prism with or without diopter lenses than sell all you Hasselblad equipment and start over buying a new camera systems.

markbarendt · Jul 6, 2016

One of the things I really enjoy about MF shots is the POV, for example the camera POV was about knee high for the shot of the girl under the chair. For several of the other shots it's obvious that the camera was held waist level. Only a few were taken approaching eye level.

If you switch to a prism finder the camera's POV will naturally rise to eye level instead. This will change the general look of the composition.

It's not a good v bad thing, it's just a what do you prefer thing.

NortheastPhotographic · Jul 19, 2016

The Contax is like THE wedding camera at the moment and costs are crazy. The results are stunning but at the same time, a recognizable look that you may feel is a one-trick-pony (your clients will not). They are also finicky for such an expensive camera. Shutters are notorious now for going bad especially at 4000th. Most people don't bother with the AF. It's pretty bad.

The Pentax is kind of a workhorse. Cheap too. The AF is better than the Contax but we're talking medium format AF tech from over a decade ago. The lenses are fabulous but they don't have anything quite like the 80/2 for Contax. The 105/2.4 for the Pentax 67 system can be adapted and equals the Contax lens in rending but it's a lot longer being a 105. Way less versatile.

If you're having trouble focusing your Hasselblad consider a Rollei 2.8F with a Maxwell screen and a prism. I use a similar set up myself and focusing is SO MUCH FASTER. I really can't even stress that point enough. That little short-throw knob on the side of a Rollei makes all the difference.

Wildcard is a Pentax 67II. Not a lot of frames on a roll, but easier to focus and you will not see better images from a portrait medium format camera.

wiltw · Jul 19, 2016

Personally the biggest issue I have with Pentax 645 is the placement of the grip...at the very REAR of the entire body, so that all the weight of a long lens + body is in FRONT of the grip!

Alan Gales · Jul 19, 2016

wiltw said:
Personally the biggest issue I have with Pentax 645 is the placement of the grip...at the very REAR of the entire body, so that all the weight of a long lens + body is in FRONT of the grip!

I had the 150mm and I just cradled the lens in my left hand. It didn't bother me. The long zoom may be awkward to use. I guess it depends on the person and the lenses they plan on using.

removedacct3 · Jul 19, 2016

If you want the best of both worlds, have a look at http://thebokehfactory.com/.

AMBYSTOMA · Jul 20, 2016

I had a similar problem with my Hasselblad, when trying to photograph a relatives wedding. I found indoor photography with my 500ELX, even with the split image finder and an eye level prism to be extremely difficult. The ideal solution, finances nonwithstanding, would be the Rollei Hy6 mod 2 which is the finest autofocus medium format film camera (I used it at the 2012 Photokina). I switched to the Mamiya 711 and have never had one out of focus shot! If you prefer 6x6 the Mamiya 6 offers identical ease of focus. I would urge you to consider the rangefinder Mamiyas which also are acknowledged to possess the finest medium format lenses in the world.

wiltw · Jul 20, 2016

Before you switch away from the Hasselblad, keep in mind that both the Pentax 645 and the Context 645 are FOCAL PLANE SHUTTER cameras, and not able to synch with flash as fast as the Hasselblad leaf shutter lenses.

removedacct3 · Jul 20, 2016

wiltw said:
Before you switch away from the Hasselblad, keep in mind that both the Pentax 645 and the Context 645 are FOCAL PLANE SHUTTER cameras, and not able to synch with flash as fast as the Hasselblad leaf shutter lenses.

Or not ... if you use the Pentax LS 75 or 135 lenses.

wiltw · Jul 20, 2016

MrclSchprs said:
Or not ... if you use the Pentax LS 75 or 135 lenses.

Consult the quite long list of capabilities that are LOST when you mount the LS lens. When you put the LS lens on the 645D, Pentax warns...

Only M mode shooting
No AE lock
No Exposure Compensation automated control
No mirror lockup
No Continuous (1.1 fps) shooting
No Exposure Bracketing

benveniste · Jul 20, 2016

wiltw said:
Consult the quite long list of capabilities that are LOST when you mount the LS lens.

I can't speak to the 645D, but on my 645N I can use A and M mode, including exposure compensation and AE lock. But that's when using it with the focal plane shutter. When using it as a leaf shutter lens, all automation effectively goes out the window. This isn't a big deal for me, since if I need a leaf shutter I typically am using non-TTL studio lights and measuring exposure with an external meter.

On a point made earlier in the thread, I use a split-image focusing screen (AB-82?) in my 645n, and find it more accurate than the "Green dot" approach.

wiltw · Jul 20, 2016

ted_smith said:
it says you need to get correction lenses if you wear glasses, as I do. What is that all about? You have to get a specially made lens to match your glasses? Or am I muddled?

The typical camera viewfinder has the apparent distance to the surface of the focusing screen at about 30" apparent distance...a bit farther than 'reading' distance (12-18"), but certainly it is not Infinity distance. That apparent distance is achieved via the so-called '0' standard diopter (which is probably not truly '0.0' value eyepiece lens, but might be actually +1.0 if measured by an optometrist). Bifocals are a different strength 'for reading' vs. 'for distance'...a viewfinder is an in-between distance from both!

When your eyes can no longer focus closely well (start worrying about that in your 40's or 50's, folks), you can use a built-in adjustable eyepiece or put a supplemental eyepiece diopter in place on the viewfinder... Or simply put on a pair of appropriate strength cheap drugstore reading glasses! The advantage to eyepiece correction (adjustable or supplemental) is that if your distance vision is fine, when you look up from your camera at the scene, you can see clearly -- whereas reading glasses have to be lowered on your nose to see distance well. But if you can't find viewfinder diopters for your camera any longer, you can simply visit the drugstore with your camera and try on relatively weak reading glasses until you can see the etchings on the groundglass (or textual information that many cameras present) clearly in the viewfinder (it helps to evaluate the viewfinder with NO LENS mounted on the body).

ted_smith · Jul 21, 2016

Thanks for the continued suggestions and for the diopter explanation, Wiltw.

I'm keeping my eye out for an NC-2 prism before I give up on the Hasselblad. I like it so much and have got fairly used to using it now as well, except for this focus issue. So I'll give the NC-2 a try and if I still struggle, then I'll return to the suggestions.

Considering a move from Hasselblad 501CM to Pentax 645 or Contax 645?

Attachments

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency