Conned on Ebay!!!

Stoo Batchelor · Apr 25, 2006

Sorry if this is in the wrong Forum!
I feel Iv'e been conned, or am I just being a bit too sensative?

I won an Item, a Rollei bayonet 1 Lense hood. Seller Mike366, described it as in 'very good condition'.

When I received the hood, it had a dent in it on the underneath, where it says 'Germany'. I emailed the seller through Ebay, saying it was wrongly described. He answered a bit flippently that IHO, He described it well for a 40 year old item, and to send it back and he would refund my money. I refused this offer as I would lose the postage money.

When I looked at the Item description again, I noticed what he had cleverly done. Posted two Photo's of the item. 'Photo 1', an image of the lenshood up for auction, showing the case plus the top view, with the Rollei emblem showing. Then 'Photo 2' the case plus a view of the bottom of the lenshood, showing the 'Germany' marking. All looked in top condition.

On further inspection, I noticed that the cases and lensehoods were too different items, and to make things even worse, 'Photo 2' was of a Rollei 2 bayonet, and dopey old me hadn't even noticed. Then why would I look? I mean, this is a good honest seller, 100% feedback, seller of over 1000 items.

I Emailed him again telling him of my findings, and that he had set out to deceive, which is tantamount to fraud. He offered no explanation or reason for the images of two different items, nor denied my accusations.

He has since offered me a refund on the items and postage both ways.

My question to you Guys and Girls is:

Do I accept his offer, ask him to refund me the money, and then send the Item back?

Accept the Item as it is, It is usable, but with an ugly dent in it, and put it down to a bad experience?

Or report him to Ebay?, after all, he is only going to relist the item again, and con someone else.

It will be interesting to hear your thoughts on this one.

Regards

Stoo

Ole · Apr 25, 2006

I would accept the refund. The next buyer might have a differnt idea of what to expect from a "very fine" 40 year item.

But if he uses the same pictures next time, I might consider warning potential buyers...

Kino · Apr 25, 2006

Ole said:
I would accept the refund. The next buyer might have a differnt idea of what to expect from a "very fine" 40 year item.

But if he uses the same pictures next time, I might consider warning potential buyers...

I agree with Ole.

wilsonneal · Apr 25, 2006

If you got a good price and can live with the dent, I'd chalk it up to a learning experience and forget about it. If you do enough deals on the auction site, eventually you'll have one that doesn't go perfectly.

As for the other options, if you truly cannot live with the imperfection, accept his offer and return it and leave positive feedback for his willingness to make it right. The idea of 'turning him in' to the auction site is probably a waste of time. In this instance fraud would be challenging to prove, I think. And at the end of the day, the auction site does a poor job of forcing people to behave in a certain way.

Hey, we cannot force people to do unto others as we would, and trying to is just futile. I appreciate how frustrated you must be, but I would look for the path that caused me the least aggravation while providing an acceptable outcome.

YMMV
Neal

resummerfield · Apr 25, 2006

Send it back and get your money. You will never be satisfied with it, and you'll find another, better hood.

David A. Goldfarb · Apr 25, 2006

I agree. If you're dissatisfied and the seller offers a refund including shipping both ways, that's a pretty good response. Most sellers won't refund shipping.

Dave Parker · Apr 25, 2006

Send it back, get your money and start looking for another one, leave him positive feedback for making it right and get on with life, many things happen in the uproar of an auction, at least he is willing to refund postage both ways and give you your money back, it will be up to the next guy when he lists it, as has been said in the past and will be in the future, buyer beware, is the best route to follow.

Dave

avandesande · Apr 25, 2006

It is possible that he screwed up the pictures on accident. If he was malicious he could of put a new picture on his server with a dent.

David Brown · Apr 25, 2006

Stoo Batchelor said:
He has since offered me a refund on the items and postage both ways.

I feel your pain. I would take the refund. That is more than many sellers would offer, and charge the experience to caveat emptor.

Just today, I rec'd a lens in the mail - that I won on April 2 (this should give you a hint.)

The entire description reads:

"Up for auction is one Nikon EL-NIKKOR Lens 105mm/5.6 Enlarger Lens. There are no scratches on the lens and the threads are fine."

Plus, a single picture of the lens, from the side. This is from a seller with 100% positive feedback.

Well, it was filthy - although not scratched and cleaned up OK (some dust inside, but thats expected). The threads are "fine", but the rear barrel is dented, meaning it's likely that the thing has been dropped at some point in its life. Also, both rims are pitted and have all the paint worn off.

Still, I paid $21 for a Nikon lens, and chances are it's OK. (Ill make prints with it soon) I cleaned, it, mounted it in the enlarger and was able to focus, adjust the aperture, etc. Even if it isn't, I've been fine on 95% of the Ebay purchases I've made. (and my wife and I have made 100's). It's all a crap shoot - bid accordingly.

Good luck.

rrankin · Apr 25, 2006

I have to go with Satinsnow Dave on this one. As to the photo mixup, if you have listed multiple items on Ebay, you know that it is easy to mess up. If you tell it you are listing some items that have similarities to save your typing and clicking time, it 'remembers' things and you may forget to over-ride all of them.

You are getting all your money including postage both ways. What more can the guy do? He's given you everything you could possibly get under any scenario and yet you are the one who still seems dissatisfied. Just don't deal with him again.

Cheers,
Richard

df cardwell · Apr 25, 2006

Get the refund and move on.

jovo · Apr 25, 2006

It's this kind of nonsense that has me almost entirely done with ebay for good...or ill for that matter. I've just bought a lens for my P67 from Keh.com and been 100% satisfied. In fact, it's better than I could have expected for a lens graded EX...I can find only one miniscule scratch on the thing...and the price was just too good to pass up. Ebay might make sense if you can't find what you'd like to buy anywhere else, but there are just too many decent second hand outlets with ongoing reputations to uphold to take a chance on ebay.

avandesande · Apr 25, 2006

My 'getting screwed' ratio is about 20:1, and I am far ahead where money is concerned. Sure it is safer (and sometimes cheaper) buying from KEH but most of the time you pay for the convenience.
You can get stuff for pennies if you take into account photos, sellers past history, end date, etc.

naturephoto1 · Apr 25, 2006

I have generally had good luck on eBay. Those problems that have arisen have been resolved. If you do not feel comfortable with the purchase, return it.

As to Jovo's comments about KEH. They have some of the most conservative ratings for their used equipment. I have been very happy with my used purchases from KEH and Midwest photo to name a few.

Stoo Batchelor · Apr 25, 2006

rrankin said:
You are getting all your money including postage both ways. What more can the guy do?
.............................................................................................................

Exactly Richard, he is doing all that he can. The thing that riled me was the tone in which his emails were written.
I, As many others, sell on Ebay and know how hard it is to build up a good reputation. Too many people jump in there and start sending out negative feedbacks without weighing up all the Pro's and cons, hense this thread.

I always do my homework before bidding on an item and this fella was sqeeky clean, so it has shocked me in the stance he dicided to take. A 'well, what do you expect for something that is 40 years old' attitude. Sorry, it does not wash, My Rollei was made in 1939 and went through a war, yet it is not dented!
.............................................................................................................
He's given you everything you could possibly get under any scenario and yet you are the one who still seems dissatisfied.
.............................................................................................................

Not dissatisfied. I'm fortunate enough for my wallet to take the knock, there are many others who are not. My concern was for other people, not myself. If this seller is willing to deceive, I would be happy enough to lose the money and put it down to experience in order to stop someone less fortunate from losing out. This is about principle, and attitude, not money. I live in a world of politness and respect, it costs nothing.

I thank you all for your response, I will take my money and move on as alot of you have suggested. Wise words I say.

Kind Regards

Stoo

rrankin · Apr 25, 2006

Stoo,

I've had three somewhat similar experiences in the past two months - two by a guy in the UK and one here in the States. I have cut my Ebaying way back now. I just don't want the hassles. But I've been screwed by a tradesman standing there looking me in the eye as well, so it isn't an Ebay only problem. It's a greed coupled with incompetence problem, IMO.

It's too bad we can't make an "I've been conned by..." list here. Thats what the feedback is supposed to be on Ebay but it doesn't work at all. Some people cannot be pleased no matter what and other people are extremely aggressive. Who needs it?

I just pay everything via Paypal using a credit card. Then, if Paypal won't reverse the charge, the credit company will do it in a heartbeat, at least in the US. Australia is different and I don't know about UK credit card companies.

But if I get my money, I move on!

Cheers,
Richard

leeturner · Apr 26, 2006

I've also cut back on Ebay unless there's an absolute steal or something I just can't find anywhere else. The main reason is price. I can phone up a couple of used equipment dealers and buy direct from them cheaper than Ebay plus I get the consumer protection afforded by a retail outlet.

moose10101 · Apr 26, 2006

Ole said:
But if he uses the same pictures next time, I might consider warning potential buyers...

And if those "potential buyers" (i.e. people who have placed a bid) report your contact to eBay, you may be suspended for auction interference.

Take the refund. As for feedback, if you don't do any selling on the ID you won the auction on, feel free to make your statement with a negative feedback. A retaliatory neg won't affect your ability to bid.

removed account4 · Apr 26, 2006

i have only been burned once in the close to 9 years i have been ebaying.
but in all the transactions i have had, i have had some really good times too.

i bought a monocular-viewer for a toyo camera - one that i know new would have cost over a hunderd dollars new, and on ebay they weren't going for much less than that ... a guy was selling it on ebay - cheep! i bought it - then he realized it was a different item than he had advertised - and rather than call off the whole thing, and risk negative feedback, he sold it to me for the price the auction ended on ... he knew he had sold it for about 60$ less than he could have gotten it for, but he realized an honest deal is an honest deal.

needlesstosay, i don't ebay as much as i would like. kids can't eat a lens
-john

mejiro · Apr 26, 2006

rrankin said:
Stoo,
It's too bad we can't make an "I've been conned by..." list here.

Why can't we? It really would be useful.

Ole · Apr 26, 2006

moose10101 said:
And if those "potential buyers" (i.e. people who have placed a bid) report your contact to eBay, you may be suspended for auction interference.

Most of the time they won't. At least - noone did when I told them about a scam a year or so ago - the auction was pulled when the real owner of the item got in touch with ebay.

Dave Parker · Apr 26, 2006

mejiro said:
Why can't we? It really would be useful.

Because one persons perception of "Conned" maybe completely different than another persons perception and publishing that type of information could open up the owner of the website to slander charges as well as those posting the information. And it is not the responsibility of this website to post information about transactions that occure outside of this website..

I do my business 100% on the internet and sometimes it is very difficult, since the advent of online business, the parameters sometimes seem to change, when dealing with someone who sells a product, be it new or used, is just a seller and not an expert, people seem to really get down on them, when purchasing things over the net, the best thing is to practise, the buyer beware policy and always expect it to be less than what you think it is, then you will never be disapointed, after the number of years that I have been selling and buying on the net, including a number of years on ebay, I have never been disapointed, but I have had a couple of transactions, that were less than what I expected, but for the most part, everything goes fine, and I get what I expect.

Dave Parker
Satin Snow Ground Glass

John Bartley · Apr 26, 2006

mejiro said:
Why can't we? It really would be useful.

Because posting a list of names and accusing them of bad practices without having an impartial assessment of what really happened is the polar opposite to how justice is supposed to take place in these countries that most of us inhabit.
People who feel they've been "had" are not the most impartial thinkers. I just read this same sort of discussion in another forum about another item and when the facts were out, it wasn't quite as clear cut as we might have been led to believe. (and that is NOT a comment on this case).

cheers

mejiro · Apr 26, 2006

My goodness, people here on APUG take themselves seriously!

For those who are interested in knowing more about an eBay seller than can be found out from eBay itself, check out photo.net: http://www.photo.net/neighbor. For other online merchants, there's www.resellerratings.com. The latter makes no pretenses about justice, but it works extremely well.

Dave Parker · Apr 26, 2006

And that is fine, and yes, we do take ourself seriously, but that type of controversay is not needed or wanted here on this website, just because a seller does something you consider wrong, may not mean that the next buyer considers it wrong, the outcome of this seems to have been solved, and probably should be let go and get onto the next subject.

Dave

Conned on Ebay!!!

Stoo Batchelor

Ole

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Kino

wilsonneal

resummerfield

David A. Goldfarb

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Dave Parker

avandesande

David Brown

rrankin

df cardwell

jovo

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avandesande

naturephoto1

Stoo Batchelor

rrankin

leeturner

moose10101

removed account4

mejiro

Ole

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Dave Parker

John Bartley

mejiro

Dave Parker

Conned on Ebay!!!

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