Confirmation of ULF Film Shipped From ILFORD Photo / HARMAN tech

Simon R Galley · Apr 7, 2006

Dear All,

I am pleased to confirm the following ULF film has now been manufactured and will be shipping by sea to the USA in the next week or so:

5 x 12 : 6.5 x 8.5 : 7 x 17 : 8 x 20 : 10 x 12 : 11 x 14 : 12 x 20 : 14 x 17 : 16 x 20 : 20 x 24 :

These have all been made in FP4+ and HP5+

The only size requested that we did not make is 7 x 11 where we received only 2 orders for FP4+ and one order for HP5+ obviously not viable to make.

We will repeat this special make when the current stock has sold out and our ULF resellers request a further make.

I hope it gives you large formatters some creative moments and some special images, I look forward to seeing some of them.

Thank you for your orders :

Kind Regards

Simon : ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

pelerin · Apr 7, 2006

Wow,
While it is a bummer that I won't get my film, I suppose I can take some solace in the exclusivity that comes with knowing that I constitute half that worldwide demand for 7x11 fp4+ film.
Celac.

Oren Grad · Apr 7, 2006

Well, I guess I was the entire global demand for 7x11 HP5 Plus this time. I'm hoping they'll retain the catalog numbers; if they do I'll place a larger order next time and see what happens.

Petzi · Apr 8, 2006

Oren Grad said:
Well, I guess I was the entire global demand for 7x11 HP5 Plus this time. I'm hoping they'll retain the catalog numbers; if they do I'll place a larger order next time and see what happens.

Couldn't you just cut 11x14 in half?

argus · Apr 8, 2006

Simon,

are there any plans to distibute ULF films on the European market?
I guess this question has been asked before but I overlooked an answer.

Greetings,
Geert

Petzi · Apr 8, 2006

argus said:
Simon,

are there any plans to distibute ULF films on the European market?
I guess this question has been asked before but I overlooked an answer.

He said somewhere else that you can get it from Silverprint in the UK.

BarryWilkinson · Apr 8, 2006

Petzi said:
He said somewhere else that you can get it from Silverprint in the UK.

IMO Simon's posting saying 'Silverprint bought some' is a fob off. Especially as he promised to look into a European supplier. See...

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I am aware of another UK supplier that bought some LF/ULF stock, but as there is no guarantee that Ilford will supply them again. IMO this is a very unsatisfactory situation.

I also have an outstanding order for Ilford film from the US but it will cost nearly twice the UK price by the time I receive it here. I won't be doing this again.

The EU LF/ULF market may be small but Ilford should remember that this market also buys lot's of paper and chemicals.

Barry

argus · Apr 8, 2006

I don't want to push mamutphoto, but it proves that there is quite some interest in ULF in Europe.

I am planning to build a 7x17" this summer and woul become another ULF customer for Ilford. I'm already hooked to their smaller format FP4 and HP5 films.

G

BarryWilkinson · Apr 8, 2006

argus said:
I don't want to push mamutphoto, but it proves that there is quite some interest in ULF in Europe.

I am planning to build a 7x17" this summer and woul become another ULF customer for Ilford. I'm already hooked to their smaller format FP4 and HP5 films.

G

Hello Argus,

You are right of course, the EU LF/ULF market is not so small. Good to hear you are going to build a 7x17, a great format.

You might try to talk Fotoimpex in Berlin into stocking some ULF film. I believe they are the distributers of the US J&C Classic film? You should be UK, but Fotoimpex will not supply the UK direct, suggesting I use the UK Retrophotgrahic outlet. However, Retro do not seem very willing to supply 'off catalogue'. Maybe that's just my experience?

Good luck with the camera build.

Barry
UK

Oren Grad · Apr 8, 2006

Petzi said:
Couldn't you just cut 11x14 in half?

Yes, I've done that before, and if I have to I probably will again. But it's a nuisance - takes time away from other things I'd rather be doing, and greatly increases the odds of ending up with dust on the negative. I'm willing to pay a premium to get properly-cut film straight from the factory.

Ole · Apr 8, 2006

I guess it's Wephota time for me - no 24x30cm or 30x40cm Ilford FP4+

Petzi · Apr 8, 2006

Yeah why don't you give these people some business?

Petzi · Apr 8, 2006

BarryWilkinson said:
You might try to talk Fotoimpex in Berlin into stocking some ULF film. I believe they are the distributers of the US J&C Classic film?

I think it is the other way round in this case. In the case of the Kodak ULF film, Fotoimpex have offered it to their customers (not through the catalogue though), so I assume they would be able and willing to supply the Ilford ULF films also.

Simon R Galley · Apr 10, 2006

Dear Barry,

Its not a fob off, European distributors have been made aware of ULF being made, but they would have to buy for stock, and its not exactly a fast runner, so in all honesty, whilst I would really like them to take it, I do not blame them, and I cannot make them take it, I am fully aware of the value to ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology of our UK and European businesses, every single customer is important to me...always has been, always will be. Without wishing to sound grumpy it has taken quite a lot of my time, and ILFORD team members time to 'make this happen' and it has been done to satisfy a requirement for what I consider one of our key user groups ( and it will be done again, when required ) ...if it had just been about margin..or profit...I can assure you it would never have been made.

Quite an interesting fact is that ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited Export 87.00% of all we make and manufacture in the UK.

Kind Regards

Simon.

Dave Miller · Apr 10, 2006

Its nice to see confirmation that you recognise the importance of minority users Simon. I must say I was surprised when you announced this particular manufacturing run, being perplexed by the economics of the venture, your explanation clarifies matters; and bodes well for the future of your business.

BarryWilkinson · Apr 10, 2006

Simon R Galley said:
Dear Barry,

Its not a fob off, European distributors have been made aware of ULF being made, but they would have to buy for stock, and its not exactly a fast runner, so in all honesty, whilst I would really like them to take it, I do not blame them, and I cannot make them take it, I am fully aware of the value to ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology of our UK and European businesses, every single customer is important to me...always has been, always will be. Without wishing to sound grumpy it has taken quite a lot of my time, and ILFORD team members time to 'make this happen' and it has been done to satisfy a requirement for what I consider one of our key user groups ( and it will be done again, when required ) ...if it had just been about margin..or profit...I can assure you it would never have been made.

Quite an interesting fact is that ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited Export 87.00% of all we make and manufacture in the UK.

Kind Regards

Simon.

Simon,

I am also sorry to sound grumpy. However, apuggers and Ilford Forum users were used to 'sound out' the market for these products and we responded with help and enthusiam. Sorry but to simply reply 'try Silverprint' to the whole of Europe was in my opinion a bad marketing statement.

Barry (not a member of one of your key groups)

Simon R Galley · Apr 10, 2006

Dear Barry,

I get your point, yes we did 'sound out' apuggers, and yes they were Worldwide I guess, and yes they did respond with help and enthusiasm....the 'contact Silverprint' is the only way I can help Europeans at this time unless they buy from the USA so I was trying to help...honest. I will make further efforts in the future to supply ULF in Europe.

I bet you a member of one of my key groups...'enjoys photography, buys photo products and is alive' is really quite broad...

Kind Regards

Simon.

Steve_7x · Apr 10, 2006

Well I was the 3rd person to order 7x11. if it is in the catalog again, I can assure you that I will be ordering more then one pack (I was depleting my existing stock). I hope the 3 of us can place larger orders next time so that we cna make the cut this time

Simon

Thanks for pulling this together. It is actions like creating new developers, and supporting markets such as ULF that create goodwill. Thanks!

One other request would be for 4x10 film to be added to the catalog in the future. I wanted to place an order but since there was no catalog # I couldn't.

Cheers!
Steve

BarryWilkinson · Apr 10, 2006

Simon R Galley said:
Dear Barry,

I get your point, yes we did 'sound out' apuggers, and yes they were Worldwide I guess, and yes they did respond with help and enthusiasm....the 'contact Silverprint' is the only way I can help Europeans at this time unless they buy from the USA so I was trying to help...honest. I will make further efforts in the future to supply ULF in Europe.

I bet you a member of one of my key groups...'enjoys photography, buys photo products and is alive' is really quite broad...

Kind Regards

Simon.

Thanks for understanding my frustration in this matter, I hope you can help us Europeans (ducks!) in future.

enjoys photography Yes
buys photo products Lots
Alive Maybe

Barry

Simon R Galley · Apr 11, 2006

Sorry Ole,

I would especially liked to have made some ULF film for you.... or a tripod....every time I look at your picture I think your arms must be really hurting holding that big old camera...

Kind Regards

Simon.

Andrew Forrester · Apr 12, 2006

Simon,

At your suggestion I contacted Silverprint about the availabilty of 14x17 film & this was their reply

"Hello Andy,

We have just spoken to Ilford, the reason they have the film showing up
as unavailable is because they have already shipped the film to the USA.
The only thing I can advise is to get in touch with Ilford direct.

Regards,

Silverprint"

So frustratingly I have missed the boat along with the rest of my fellow Europen ULF photographers!

Simon R Galley · Apr 13, 2006

Hi Andrew,

Firstly I will check if we have any product left over, I think the reason it was shipped to the States is that they ordered it and Silverprint must not have, we only made this ULF film against firm orders from distributors and resellers, we did not make any for stock.

Sorry

Simon.

WarEaglemtn · Apr 13, 2006

"The only size requested that we did not make is 7 x 11 where we received only 2 orders for FP4+ and one order for HP5+ obviously not viable to make.

We will repeat this special make when the current stock has sold out and our ULF resellers request a further make."

You guys at Ilford have shot yourselves in the foot handling the larger and custom sizes this way. Not having Photo Warehouse or similar able to purchase long rolls and cut to order for those of us using odd sizes has pushed some of us to other brands of film. This is so we can shoot the same film in all the formats we use.

Having to commit and purchase all our film at one whack is not possible for all of us. Being able to buy film as needed is workable for us but apparently not for Ilford. Too bad as I really like FP4+ but now go elsewhere so I am shooting the same film in all the formats I use. Others I know are in the same boat. Business reality for us is being able to get what we need when we need it rather than becoming a stock house/storehouse with a year/two year supply in an icebox.

Make accomodations with Photo Warehouse or one custom film cutter so we can use your products or watch as a number of us no longer use Ilford film. Can't see using film I can't get when I need it.

Petzi · Apr 13, 2006

I don't see why you can't buy a year's supply in one order. You don't need an icebox for that. Not even a refrigerator.

If you think someone should stock your film, talk to your dealer, not Ilford. This is ULF film not whole milk!

Another thing I don't understand is why everybody who uses ULF seems to want a different format. I can understand there is a need for a few different aspect ratios and sizes, but why do you request 7x11", could you not work with some other similar format? Standard 8x10" for example is not far off, and you could just mask a little at the bottom and top to get the aspect ratio.

I can see that some people want to use older cameras which are made for formats that are no longer common today, but it appears to me that a few people seem to think they can invent a format, build a custom camera, and then demand that someone make the film for them. When the film is not made because there are only three geeks that want it, they blame the manufacturer.

I have no doubt Ilford is going to sell you a master roll of film if you ask them! You could cut that to whatever you like.

ReallyBigCameras · Apr 13, 2006

My opinion on this matter falls in the middle ground between Dan and Michael. First, I'm just thrilled to see Ilford and Kodak offering film in ANY of these sizes. I'll be buying a new freezer to hold my new 7x17 and 4x10 film when it arrives. My wife is behind me on this as I'm already taking up over half of HER freezer with my 4x10 Velvia and E100S, plus several boxes of Quickloads and Readyloads - and that stuff is small compared to the 7x17.

So, I have no problem ordering a year or two supply of film at a time. Even in 4x5 I've always preferred to make big film purchases once or twice a year rather than buying it a box at a time. Having to buy in bulk is a whole lot better than not being to buy at all - and if this is the only model that lets Ilford (and Kodak) continue to supply film in these sizes, that's fine with me. And let's face it, these companies do need to make money on this or they just plain won't do it. And, in spite of the enthusiasm these formats enjoy here on APUG, in the grand scheme of things the reality is ULF is a niche market (or more accurately a sub-niche of a niche market).

That said, I don't think 4x10 falls under Michael's description:

older cameras which are made for formats that are no longer common today, but it appears to me that a few people seem to think they can invent a format, build a custom camera, and then demand that someone make the film for them. When the film is not made because there are only three geeks that want it, they blame the manufacturer.

There are four manufacturers offering cameras in the 4x10 size TODAY (soon to be a fifth - Fotoman) and five companies making 4x10 film holders. I get multiple emails every week from people with questions about 4x10 cameras, lenses and film holders.

I doubt Simon wants to hear this, but when I placed my film order back in January, due to the lack of FP4+ in 4x10, 100% of my order (20 boxes of 7x17 and 10 boxes of 4x10) went to Kodak. Had FP4+ been available in 4x10, Ilford would have gotten at least 1/2 of my order, maybe more. Like Dan, I prefer to shoot the same films in all the formats I shoot. The lack of 4x10 FP4+ discouraged me from ordering any in 7x17. Hopefully the next time Ilford will realize that there are enough 4x10 shooters out there (many who also shoot in other, bigger formats) to make offering their films in 4x10 worth their while.

Kerry

Confirmation of ULF Film Shipped From ILFORD Photo / HARMAN tech

Simon R Galley

pelerin

Oren Grad

Petzi

argus

Petzi

BarryWilkinson

argus

BarryWilkinson

Oren Grad

Ole

Moderator

Petzi

Petzi

Simon R Galley

Dave Miller

BarryWilkinson

Simon R Galley

Steve_7x

BarryWilkinson

Simon R Galley

Andrew Forrester

Simon R Galley

WarEaglemtn

Petzi

ReallyBigCameras

Advertiser

Confirmation of ULF Film Shipped From ILFORD Photo / HARMAN tech

Moderator

Advertiser

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency