Confirm my suspicion on a C41 dev error?

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moodyblue

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What you’re looking at: Top left is previous C41 developed with the same brand of chemistry, not the same batch though. Bottom left is my problem roll of C41, noticeably “thin” negatives that are more green than usual (resulting in too much magenta cast in scanned image as well as very little shadow detail). Right is a roll of slide film (Kodak elitechrome 100) that was developed in the same tank as the problem roll (my tank does 5 rolls at once).

What I’m using: Kodak Flexicolor chemistry mixed and bottled for home development. My first batch of C41 replenisher made for 5L (that was used for top left roll), once it was used up I bought the 10L version as I do this semi-commercially. I’ve noticed the 10L mixture has a slight fishy odor that wasn’t there in the first 5L batch... I kept everything as clean as I could when preparing the replenisher–washing the storage bottles in a dishwasher, mixing the chemistry in a well-washed pool chlorine bucket, and adding distilled water only. Granted, human error is always present especially when mixing on your garage floor, so if contamination could cause a stronger odor that might be the issue. For developing I use a water bath controlled with a sous-vide, so the rolls/tank were pre-warmed with distilled water, and then the working solution of developer was poured in once its temperature reached just above the 37.8 C mark. Agitation (and aeration of the bleach) was standard for what the flexicolor kit requires.

What I think went wrong: I processed 4 rolls of C41 with the roll of slide film above, using the fishy-smelling Kodak replenisher with “seasoned” bleach/fix/rinse chemistry that has seen about 20 rolls prior (fixer is currently at the color of dark urine, sorry if that’s gross). I’m wondering if the results of my problem roll are because I cross-processed the reversal film and the negative films in the same tank/chemistry. Otherwise, what else might have caused the thinness and magenta cast of those negatives, and is there any way I can restore them? They’ve already gone through both bleach and fix, so I’m wondering if rebleaching and/or refixing might improve them at all. Also wondering if this 10L batch of replenisher with a fishy odor is worth risking on other rolls, or if it could be the culprit.

Any theories are greatly appreciated and apologies if I left any important variables out!


IMG_6046.jpg
 

Donald Qualls

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I'm going to agree with @halfaman on this one. The Elitechrome looks reasonably well developed, but between color shift from cross-process and no mask, it's harder to read -- but the C-41 lower left definitely looks underdeveloped, which means it almost certainly also has a cast and crossover. Unsalvageable if it's anything more important than family snapshots. And no, this is not due to cross processing a roll of chromes in your C-41 developer.

No, Flexicolor Developer Replenisher should not have a fishy odor. I'm not aware of any photo chemical that should. If you're not already, you should dedicate one (set of) mixing vessels for your photo chemistry and nothing else. You should also consider keeping a sample of your "fishy" color developer for analysis (keep the whole batch if you have enough storage bottles), at least until you've contacted Kodak Alaris/Sino Promise about the problem chemicals.

On the bright side, your bleach, fixer, and final rinse should be fine.
 
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moodyblue

moodyblue

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Thank you both for your thoughts on this!

I knew the odor was strange, but with some further research it turns out the EKTACOLOR chemicals supposedly have a slight fishy odor to them, while the FLEXICOLOR chemicals should be completely odorless. I looked back at my last invoice and wouldn't you know, I'd bought the 10L solution for Ektacolor chemistry instead of Flex, which was my last 5L batch. Silly mistake, but glad to know what caused it. Sad to be throwing out the remaining 8L of replenisher unless there's any way I can tweak Ektacolor for C41 development...?

Looks like they're both out of stock now anyway, so any leads on FLEXICOLOR Dev replenisher available to be shipped to Canada would be greatly appreciated!
 

Wayne

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Unique Photo sells it, I've never asked if they ship to Canada though because that would be a long drive to pick it up.
 

MattKing

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Thank you both for your thoughts on this!

I knew the odor was strange, but with some further research it turns out the EKTACOLOR chemicals supposedly have a slight fishy odor to them, while the FLEXICOLOR chemicals should be completely odorless. I looked back at my last invoice and wouldn't you know, I'd bought the 10L solution for Ektacolor chemistry instead of Flex, which was my last 5L batch. Silly mistake, but glad to know what caused it. Sad to be throwing out the remaining 8L of replenisher unless there's any way I can tweak Ektacolor for C41 development...?

Looks like they're both out of stock now anyway, so any leads on FLEXICOLOR Dev replenisher available to be shipped to Canada would be greatly appreciated!
Put the remaining Ektacolor replenisher up for sale on Vancouver Craigslist.
I'm nor set up here for RA-4 printing, and the shared darkroom I could normally use isn't available during Covid, otherwise I would be reaching out to you.
 

Bikerider

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Can I ask why develop a roll of C41 as well as E6 in the same developer? They are seperate processes. If it was a money saving exercise then it has not worked out very well.
 
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moodyblue

moodyblue

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Can I ask why develop a roll of C41 as well as E6 in the same developer? They are seperate processes. If it was a money saving exercise then it has not worked out very well.
Yes they are separate processes, but I was intentionally developing the E6 roll in C41 chemistry in order to experiment with the "cross-processed" effect. That E6 roll was just a test shoot so I was ready for any color shifts that might happen, only afterward did I consider that the shedding of the E6 emulsion in the same tank as four C41 rolls might produce other problems, although that doesn't seem to have been the issue. Contact sheet from my cross-processed Kodak EliteChrome 100 roll below:
20210211_100KodakEliteChrome_ContactSheet.jpg
 

Donald Qualls

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E-6 has the same processing temp as C-41, there shouldn't be any issue with emulsion shedding from cross-processing E-6 films in C-41 process.

Further, since Ektacolor has the same developing agent as E-6 color developer, there may be little color shift (though the activity level is probably different, not to mention developing in the negative rather than as a positive, so there might be crossover).
 

Rudeofus

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There are two things, which catch my eye:
  1. The orange mask on the left bottom looks unusually weak. Even if you completely omit the color developer there should be the exact same orange mask as in the top left image. Can you confirm, that this difference is not an artifact of your digitization?
  2. While the negative image matter looks really weak in that bottom left image, the frame rebates look almost normal. I wonder, whether some degree of underexposure was also at work here
 

Donald Qualls

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Thank you both for your thoughts on this!

I knew the odor was strange, but with some further research it turns out the EKTACOLOR chemicals supposedly have a slight fishy odor to them, while the FLEXICOLOR chemicals should be completely odorless. I looked back at my last invoice and wouldn't you know, I'd bought the 10L solution for Ektacolor chemistry instead of Flex, which was my last 5L batch. Silly mistake, but glad to know what caused it. Sad to be throwing out the remaining 8L of replenisher unless there's any way I can tweak Ektacolor for C41 development...?

Looks like they're both out of stock now anyway, so any leads on FLEXICOLOR Dev replenisher available to be shipped to Canada would be greatly appreciated!

I have a followup question for this, based on your results with the negatives. Did you mix the Ektacolor developer according to instructions on the concentrate bottle(s), or according to the usual Flexicolor instructions?

I've been interested in testing Ektacolor as a color developer for E-6, and your experience suggests it works, at least for processing E-6 film as negatives. If I can verify this works, and find a reliable first developer, I can process my own Ektachrome without having to buy separate E-6 kits.
 
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