Concert shooting advice

cromatt · Oct 2, 2022

Hey

I recently shot a concert with Delta 3200 with flash but I was wondering if anyone had recommendations for concert shooting?

The venue is just lit from the stage but fairly well and I can get right up front (only 350 capacity), should I use flash or is it not necessary with a high iso film?

With flash, what would we be a top notch 35mm b/w film? I’m after something with a bit of grain and not overly contrasty like TRX 400

Thanks!

MattKing · Oct 2, 2022

I've never encountered a concert where they let you use flash!
Delta 3200 is actually an ~ ISO 1000 film with lower than normal contrast. It responds well to increased development ("pushing") so it can often be under-exposed at an EI of 1600 or 3200 and pushed without the end contrast becoming too obnoxious.
Tri-X actually isn't particularly contrasty, unless people give in to an apparent internet wide tendency to under-expose it and over-develop it.
My best exposures under concert lighting - bright highlights and deep shadows - came when I could get up close and meter off of the highlight areas. I used Tri-X at an EI of either 400 or, in some cases, 800.

cromatt · Oct 2, 2022

MattKing said:
I've never encountered a concert where they let you use flash!
Delta 3200 is actually an ~ ISO 1000 film with lower than normal contrast. It responds well to increased development ("pushing") so it can often be under-exposed at an EI of 1600 or 3200 and pushed without the end contrast becoming too obnoxious.
Tri-X actually isn't particularly contrasty, unless people give in to an apparent internet wide tendency to under-expose it and over-develop it.
My best exposures under concert lighting - bright highlights and deep shadows - came when I could get up close and meter off of the highlight areas. I used Tri-X at an EI of either 400 or, in some cases, 800.

Thanks!

GregY · Oct 2, 2022

What Matt said.....& definitely no flash.

cromatt · Oct 2, 2022

GregY said:
What Matt said.....& definitely no flash.

MattKing · Oct 2, 2022

FWIW, if I was photographing concerts now - I would be using T-Max 400 rather than Tri-X. That choice has little to do with the nature of the two films, and everything to do with the fact that I'm using T-Max 400 (and T-Max 100) for everything I do now in B&W, and am therefore more comfortable with it in my current workflow.
Metering and familiarity with the light is more important than the film!

xkaes · Oct 2, 2022

Flash is usually not just a NO-NO, it's not needed -- especially with fast film, like ISO 400. The stage lights are plenty bright enough. The problem is metering, especially because concert lighting often changes. The best approach is to use a spot meter and find an area that is a mid-tone -- it does not have to be gray. Barring a spot meter, use a camera with a spot function or use a long lens.

cromatt · Oct 2, 2022

With Delta 3200 would you recommend shooting at 1600 or 3200?

I think I’ll try some TMax too

Eric Rose · Oct 2, 2022

I shot a lot of concert stuff in the 70. Used TriX and pushed it to 1600. Never ever used a flash! It's just not done.

Fredrixxon · Oct 2, 2022

Flash? for onstage events? Damn never!
I've tried tri-x pushed to 1600 in t-max developer, but it sucked. Burned-out lights only. So I run on p3200 @ 3200. Far from perfect, but acceptable. I shot hundreds of rolls in '90 before I went digital.
Stage lights need some experience and if you have camera with spot light metering (I mean true spot metering, not just centre) this is the time to use it.

guangong · Oct 2, 2022

I am not sure whether OP xkaes is referring to a rock concert or a music concert. I usually shoot at music concerts with approval or request from the artists. I use a 400 film (Delta 400) and a rangefinder camera(either ltm or M Leica) so as not to interfere with audience listening pleasure, since silence is often a part of score. Also, much easier to hold rf camera steady as slow speeds.
For a rock concert, I would imagine any camera would suffice since any camera’s shutter noise would be drowned out by performers. However, controllers of venue probably have commitments with professional photographers and flash would be a no no, and,if using flash, you might be asked to leave the premises.

mug · Oct 2, 2022

∆3200 from ilford on 1600 ISO ; Lith print ; 35 mm film. No flash on a local pop-podium VERA in Groningen (The Netherlands) summer 2022

GregY · Oct 2, 2022

Delta 3200 at 1600 max....

AZD · Oct 2, 2022

One of my better (and luckier) early pictures was of the high school conductor during a concert. I used bulk P3200 (I miss those days…) at 6400 in Tmax developer, which is what we used to develop everything. The camera was a Pentax PZ1-P with power zoom 80-200 or something like that, not very fast at the long end. I distinctly remember spot metering his face, setting the shutter to something hand-holdable (1/250 maybe) and letting the aperture fall wherever. Worked out great. Today, with a faster prime, I would use whichever 400 speed film you like best at 1600. I personally go for HP5 and Microphen in these situations now.

Paul Howell · Oct 2, 2022

I don't care for Delta 3200, Tmax 3200 can be shot at 1600 with good shadow details, 3200 is a push. Looking at concert pictures from the 60s and 70s most were TriX pushed. I covered a few concerts for the papers I freelanced for, Kiss being one. I shot TriX at 1600 developed in Acufine, no shadow detail, grain well it was the 70s, for that classic look use TriX or HP5, push and use Acufine, meter for the highlights and let the shadows fall where they may.

Sirius Glass · Oct 2, 2022

No flash! It bothers everyone else and does not have the strength to go far enough to change the exposure.

Autonerd · Oct 2, 2022

No flash unless you want a guitar shoved up your nose.

The one concert I shot was a small affair, and IIRC I shot it with Gold 400 and a 50/1.7 lens. Assuming bright concert lights, you should be fine at 1600, I haven't used Delta or high-speed T-Max (I prefer traditional-grain film) but my recommendation would be to load up and get a couple of meter readings, then decide on what ISO you need to shoot.

Aaron

jimjm · Oct 2, 2022

I've gotten good results with Delta 3200 and TMax3200 (old version) shot at 1600. Obviously no flash, so a camera with spot meter capability is almost a must. Meter off of the faces and use that to set your exposure - let the shadows and everything else fall where they want to. Fast lenses are a huge help and will allow you to use faster shutter speeds.
All the below shots were taken with a Nikon F4 and a 180/2.8 AF and 105/2.5 AIS lenses. I also shot with 50 and 28mm lenses, but the exposures were tougher to nail unless I could get close to the musician to get a meter reading. The lighting for this rehearsal session was not too extreme, but I had to use longer lenses with a monopod for a lot of scenes.
Both Delta and TMax were developed in Xtol full-strength. Scans are from the negatives. The TMax shots seemed to have a bit more contrast, but grain was nice with both films.

MattKing · Oct 2, 2022

guangong said:
I am not sure whether OP xkaes is referring to a rock concert or a music concert.

Or perhaps a rock music concert?
And of course xkaes is not the OP.
From a 45 year old tear sheet - and originally shot on Tri-X from a vantage point in the "pit" amongst the accredited photographers and security personnel.

xkaes · Oct 2, 2022

guangong said:
I am not sure whether OP xkaes is referring to a rock concert or a music concert.

Where I live "rock" IS "music" -- but maybe that's just Colorado. I'll check it out tomorrow.

Moose22 · Oct 2, 2022

cromatt said:
With Delta 3200 would you recommend shooting at 1600 or 3200?

I think I’ll try some TMax too

I would shoot Delta 3200 at 3200.

At 800 or 1600 I get as good or better performance out of HP5. That said, Delta3200 looks good at 1600, as the photos above show off nicely. So it's personal preference. But HP5 is cheaper and I have a good load of it, so I always reach for it if I don't need to go "fastest" fast.

Also, I've shot p3200 in stupid low light and I actually like it better than Delta3200. Still in the same ballpark, just personal preference, but consider it. Both are excellent films.

This is P3200 -- she's lit only by a streetlight:

ANd Delta3200 in the same terrible lighting:

Top one is MF, the next one is 135

guangong · Oct 3, 2022

MattKing said:
Or perhaps a rock music concert?
And of course xkaes is not the OP.
From a 45 year old tear sheet - and originally shot on Tri-X from a vantage point in the "pit" amongst the accredited photographers and security personnel.
View attachment 317906

guangong · Oct 3, 2022

My choice of words was not meant to denigrate rock as music, but couldn’t find other words to describe the differences in audiences and noise levels in terms of photography by unaccredited photographers in different venues.
Apologize for any negative perceptions. I grew up with be-pop, with different kinds of audiences and behavior from performers and artists. Not better, but different for a different time and different music. The last band that I took photos of was quite a while ago...Mingus Big Band...friend played bassoon.

MattKing · Oct 3, 2022

guangong said:
My choice of words was not meant to denigrate rock as music, but couldn’t find other words to describe the differences in audiences and noise levels in terms of photography by unaccredited photographers in different venues.

guangong said:
Apologize for any negative perceptions. I grew up with be-pop,

No apology necessary - I was merely "pulling your chain". I expect though you mean "be-bop".
I'm not sure the noise levels matter a lot, but the type and level of lighting definitely does. I'll agree though that the lighting often reflects the expected energy from the audience. A "mosh pit" for a rock and roll or punk or new wave or ... performance will definitely present different challenges than a performance where people spend most of their time in their seats.
Blues and jazz clubs are often the toughest - small venues, illuminated by very little light and a predominance of dark skinned musicians wearing black suits. You hope for a saxophone player, in order to be able to see at least something on your negative!

Ian Grant · Oct 3, 2022

Initially I used HP5 at 1600 EI, but then switched to XP1 and then XP2 pish processed. When Ilford released XP2 it was with the standard C41 processing time, XP1 had a non-standard C41 process time and labs didn't like processing it, but Ilford also listed push process times.

The advantage of XP2 is you don't get the same contrast build up with push processing in C41 chemistry, as you do with Tri-X or HP5nin regular B&W developers.

Ian

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