Compur jammed at 1 sec!

j-dogg · Sep 29, 2013

Today I made the move to LF and managed to jam a Compur / F. Deckel Munchen at 1/2 sec. while checking the shutter speeds (which were fine until I got to 1 sec.) Lens is a 13.5cm 4.5 Meyer Gorlitz, in excellent shape. It looks like this was a shooter because everything is like new or in excellent shape.

I can only go from 1 sec to 100 now and its notchy at 1/25th

Wat do?

shutterfinger · Sep 29, 2013

Go to : http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/graflex_11.html and read manual pages 6 through 9 then go to http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/graflex_12.html and read manual pages 6 through 12.
An early Compur that I serviced has a time delay in place of a press to focus. With the lever tab next to the speed dial is normal operation, pressed toward the rear of the shutter is full delay. It should not be in between the two extremes.

Speeds above 1/100 are acieved by a booster spring that is compressed when the speed dial is turned to those speeds. It is normal for the speed dial to be harder to turn to the speeds above 1/100.

j-dogg · Sep 29, 2013

Doesn't seem to have the time delay.

It goes to 1/200, well it's supposed to. I'm pretty sure it's jammed somehow. I can't set it to B or T and the cocking lever is all the way to the right, but I can't trip the shutter

j-dogg · Sep 29, 2013

Well that was weird, it literally just now fixed itself.

I guess ill be staying away from anything below 1/5th, I can use a cable and bulb for those. Back to normal, yay!

Ian Grant · Sep 29, 2013

The lubrication is dry, very common. Many suggest swamping with lighter fuel to clean, I prefer a few drops of IPA (not India Pale Ale) Iso-prophyl alcohol. It works extremely well on old shutters. I've revived countless Compurs that way and they all work fine many years later.

Ian

j-dogg · Sep 29, 2013

Yeah we got some in syringes at work, I'll bring it in and do it on break

Alan W · Sep 29, 2013

Ian,do you take the shutter apart or is there a secret hole to put the drops in and make it easy for morons like me?

Tom1956 · Sep 29, 2013

Alan W said:
Ian,do you take the shutter apart or is there a secret hole to put the drops in and make it easy for morons like me?

Well, about 45 minutes ago, I just poured in a capful of 99% isopropyl and worked the controls and kept blowing until everything was pretty dry, and now I'm testing much better accuracy on my Compur than last night. Of course, there's probably some wetness still down in there providing a certain amount of lube (for the time being). No telling what my testing might show on it in a week. I hardly expect a permanent miracle. See my thread on the subject I started last night on shutter testing.

shutterfinger · Sep 29, 2013

Remove the lens cells. Put the shutter in a jar slightly larger in diameter than the shutter. Pour in enough alcohol to just cover the shutter. Soak for 30 minutes to 1 hour. Remove and operate at 1 second to 1/100 second. Return to the alcohol for an additional 30 minutes to 1 hour. Remove from the alcohol, drain thoroughly and allow to dry over night. Test again.
OR
send it to me for a CLA.

Ian Grant · Sep 30, 2013

Alan W said:
Ian,do you take the shutter apart or is there a secret hole to put the drops in and make it easy for morons like me?

Depends. if the shutter's just slightly sticky I remove the lens cells and use no more than a capfull of alcohol, I run it in on the edge of the shutter blades, then work the shutter at a faster speed to free up the lubrication, then I use a hair drier to gently dry the shutter, making sure the shutter blades and aperture diaphragm are free of any oil/grease.

If very bad I'll open for a proper clean, and then re-lube the relevant areas.

In the worst case scenarios I've twice had to use WD40 to help remove corrosion including rust on the shutter blades, definitely not recommended normally, but both shutters were completely non functional and a commercial CLA would have been far more that their worth. They were partly dis-assembled thoroughly cleaned to remove every trace of the WD40, then re-assembled lubricated and tested.

Should add though that these weren't Compur's, one was a Velosto (Optimo) and the other a Vario. I've also had to use quite aggressive cleaning on Luc type front mounting shutters but these are easy to completely dis-assemble.

Ian

edp · Sep 30, 2013

Make sure your aperture blades are metal, and not the rubbery papery material that some earlier shutters have, before you dunk it in solvent and dissolve the aperture blades.

Better still, don't soak them, take them apart and clean them properly. It's not difficult.

Steve Smith · Sep 30, 2013

Ian Grant said:
I prefer a few drops of IPA (not India Pale Ale)

No. That's better in pints!

Steve.

pasiasty · Sep 30, 2013

edp said:
Better still, don't soak them, take them apart and clean them properly. It's not difficult.

Definitely. You can use something like WD40 for cleaning (Kontakt 60, a spray for cleaning electric contacts, is also useful - it removes dirt very well and even some rust), provided that you swab the agent completely, the surfaces should be dry (shutter blades are designed to work dry rather than lubricated). A few days ago I did so with a sticky, old Compur #2, it took about 15 minutes + an hour to find a way how to access the blades.

Ian Grant · Sep 30, 2013

pasiasty said:
Definitely. You can use something like WD40 for cleaning (Kontakt 60, a spray for cleaning electric contacts, is also useful - it removes dirt very well and even some rust), provided that you swab the agent completely, the surfaces should be dry (shutter blades are designed to work dry rather than lubricated). A few days ago I did so with a sticky, old Compur #2, it took about 15 minutes + an hour to find a way how to access the blades.

WD40 is a very last resort for corroded parts, it takes a bit of effort to remove completely, I've only used it on what were essentially junk shutters before I began restoration.

Ian

snederhiser · Sep 30, 2013

Hello;
Recently did a CLA on a dial set Compur. I usually take these completely apart and clean every part. I had to rework the escapement pawl to get the clockwork to work again. Take pictures with a digital camera so you have a record for reassembly. I do not like the squirt and shoot method for shutter repair. I like being able to lubricate important points to allow for long service. Steven.

Tom1956 · Sep 30, 2013

Tom1956 said:
Well, about 45 minutes ago, I just poured in a capful of 99% isopropyl and worked the controls and kept blowing until everything was pretty dry, and now I'm testing much better accuracy on my Compur than last night. Of course, there's probably some wetness still down in there providing a certain amount of lube (for the time being). No telling what my testing might show on it in a week. I hardly expect a permanent miracle. See my thread on the subject I started last night on shutter testing.

Thw above post was last night. But now the shutter has gone for the most part right back to where it was in the first place. The speeds are close to 1/2 as marked.

pasiasty · Sep 30, 2013

Tom1956 said:
Thw above post was last night. But now the shutter has gone for the most part right back to where it was in the first place. The speeds are close to 1/2 as marked.

That's why disassembling, cleaning and reassembling is preferred. If only blade mechanism is affected - i.e. shutter with removed blades works well - the whole procedure is quite easy and you don't have to disassemble the whole cocking and clock-work mechanism containing bazillion of elements. Of course - to determine this you have to partially dissemble the shutter, and if you do, there in no reason not to clean it. In my case (Compur #2) blades were accessible from the rear.

Peter Simpson · Sep 30, 2013

Why not WD-40?

Well, WD-40 is basically kerosene, which is a good solvent, but it also contains some non-volatile, waxy material, which is left behind after the kerosene evaporates. *That* is what causes problems, because it will gum up the works, and it's devilishly hard to get rid of.

WD-40: good for displacing water and removing/preventing rust, on stuff that's not camera equipment!

shutterfinger · Sep 30, 2013

Alcohol is a slow acting solvent on dried up lubricants so soaking in it will not hurt any thing.
A quick flush through the openings, works well for a while then goes back to sluggish/non working state = disassemble-CLA needed.

Tip from American Restoration on the History channel: To remove rust without damaging old parts soak the rusted part in Cider Vinegar for 15 to 30 minutes then wash off. The part will start to rust back in a few hours to a day if not treated with oil, primer, or other rust inhibiting agent.

I have restored a Compur Rapid 00 that had the shutter and aperture blades rusted and stuck to the adjoining blade. Disassembled the shutter, put the rusted parts in a jar and covered with Cider Vinegar and let sit for an hour. Took the blades out, wiped the vinegar off as the rust was floating/settling out in the vinegar, rubbed in extra fine powdered graphite to each cleaned part, reassembled. All speeds from 1 second to 1/100 second within a 20% tolerance, 1/200- 1/2 stop slow, 1/400-1 stop slow.
Compur 0 non working, levers riveted to the main setting ring rusted and non moveable. Soaked in vinegar, wiped off, applied light oil, completed a full CLA, shutter within a 20% tolerance from 1 second to 1/125, 1/250-1/2 stop slow, 1/500- 1 1/2 stops slow.

I have tried white vinegar to remove rust and it does not work.

Compur shutter service manual: http://benoit.suaudeau.perso.neuf.fr//manuels_rep/obturateurs/Compur-shutter-repair-manual.html
Compur Rapid service manual: http://benoit.suaudeau.perso.neuf.fr/manuels_rep/obturateurs/compur_rapid_shutter_repair(2).pdf

j-dogg · Sep 30, 2013

edp said:
Make sure your aperture blades are metal, and not the rubbery papery material that some earlier shutters have, before you dunk it in solvent and dissolve the aperture blades.

Better still, don't soak them, take them apart and clean them properly. It's not difficult.

Good call, that's what I've got apparently. Unless the metal blades have a matte finish. Lol

Compur jammed at 1 sec!

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