Compard Digibase C41 - Extend development times?

[Anon Ymous]

Hello all.

I'm planing to make an order from macodirect and I though about buying a C41 kit. I haven't shot any colour films for quite some time (ages) and I'll never be a high volume shooter, so a small kit seems a reasonable choice. Given the recommendation for separate bleach - fixer, I thought this Compard Digibase C41 kit would be a good choice. Everything seems fine and dandy, except the documentation (in typical maco style).

This 500ml kit is supposed to have a 6 - 10 film capacity, but it doesn't have a replenisher/starter. You make 500ml of working solution and you are supposed to reuse it. So far so good, but what about development times? Shouldn't they be extended? Does anyone have experience using this kit?

 

[Rudeofus]

You are correct, time spent in process liquid must be extended as the soup is reused. Strangely, Compard Digibase's instruction sheet doesn't mention this. For color developer step you could look at Tetenal's C-41 instructions (e.g. from here). For the remaining process steps your process times should move from shortest to longest time given in Compard Digibase's instruction sheet as you reuse the liquids.

 

[Anon Ymous]

Thanks Ruseofus.

Incidentally, the times stated in Tetenal's document are the same with those for the Rollei Colorchem C41 kit, where they bothered to mention them. So, taking into account that this is a 500ml kit (the others being 1l kits), I should half the number of films in these tables and the maximum capacity is about 8 films. While we are at it, do you remember the recommended concentration for the acetic acid stop bath? 1,5%?

 

[Anon Ymous]

Oh, found the answer. (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Probably not too critical I suppose.

 

[Hauptillusionator]

Hey Anon, I'm having the same issues as you had.
Did you followed Rudeofus' advice? Have you been successful?

 

[Anon Ymous]

Hey Anon, I'm having the same issues as you had.
Did you followed Rudeofus' advice? Have you been successful?

Well, yes I did and didn't. It's a long story but here it is..

The first film I processed (Kodak Color Plus 200) came out fine. Up to the 3rd film (Ektar 100) things were marvelous, but from that point on (Ektar and Portra 160) the results weren't very nice and I'm not exactly sure what the problem was. Having a 500ml kit I had to halve the number of films that could be developed with a specific time. In other words, if Tetenal's document mentioned 3:15 development time for the first 4 films I used that time for the first two films. I did my best to keep processing temperatures as precise as possible. I presoaked - preheated the film and tank and also timed development carefully, as I always do.

The film base of the 4th and 5th film didn't have exactly the expected colour (they were brownish, especially the Portra) and minimum density was probably higher. These films were harder to scan and get good results. The first thing I thought was insufficient bleaching, but rebleaching - refixing a piece of processed film leader showed that it's not the case. Both of these films were not expired. At this point I was too busy and didn't shoot any film for months. Then about a month ago I decided to experiment with an expired Agfaphoto Vista 400 and try to make positives (bw 1st developer, wash, expose to light, then process C41). I decided to use the normal development time because a clip test showed rather normal activity, even though the mixed solutions were 7 months old. Surprisingly, I got some normal looking film base and reasonable colour (combined with the orange film base that is ). After that I shot an expired Agfaphoto Vista 100, which I processed normally (3:15 development time). It too had normal base colour and density (so bleach is still fine), although it was somewhat hard to get good results when scanning.

And the conclusion? It is quite hard to say and there are many variables, but my results suggest that using the normal development time for all films is what you should do, even though it is counter-intuitive.

 

[Rudeofus]

AFAIK, Tetenal's instructions do not assume prerinse, therefore C-41 CD will be more concentrated after a few reuses in Tetenal's procedure than in your's. Also note, that Tetenal's instructions assume, that you process these first 4 rolls at once, not in consecutive runs. As C-41 CD becomes more and more oxidized, its pH goes up, so after a few runs with rinses preceding each one you end up with a developer, which is much more dilute and at the same time more active at the same time. That's likely why you get the browner film base: fog.

About the expired Vista 100: someone gave me a large stash of long expired color negative film some time ago, mostly Kodak and Fuji, and I have used extensively it during the last two years. My experience can be summed up as this: with slow films (ISO 100-200), you lose speed first, then some contrast, but won't get much fog. With fast films (ISO 400) you lose speed dramatically (as in: old ISO 400 film is slower than ISO 100 film of same age) and get lots of fog. Your Vista falls into the first category, therefore you should expect much nicer results if you shoot it at EI 25-50. YMMV.

 

[Hauptillusionator]

Thank you 2 very much for coming back to this old thread!

It seems that the Digibasekit is very tricky because of its incomplete instruction manual
Besides to this thread here I asked a similar question on stackexchange with... well, lets say a moderate satisfying answer: to replenish.
But: when and how much replenish? Should I buy a second Digibase Kit just for replenishing? Alan (on stackexchange) said around 5ml per roll for the bleach - so do I need to mix another working-solution just for replenishing? Or are replenishing chemicals totally different?
Btw, here's the link: http://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/84730/compard-digibase-c41-extended-processing-times

Considering that, I might stay with Tetenal, since that was very uncomplicated and worked like a charm
But something inside of me wants to level up and try new stuff!
There must be someone in here who has experience with those digibase kits!

P.S. Another question: What exactly does the starter do? I wanted to order the 1l solution which includes a starter. I only have experience with Tetenal, which comes without a starter, so I never knew it even exists!

 

[RPC]

Developers traditionally have been sold in the form of working solutions for home users, and replenishers for labs. The replenisher, with a slightly different chemical make-up than the working solution, can be made into a working solution by adding the correct amount of starter and water. That way a lab only has to buy replenisher, and not replenisher and working solution, for both uses. The home user can certainly use the replenisher too, but of course would have to buy and add the starter to make a working solution. The same applies to some other solutions as well.

 

[Anon Ymous]

Oh, forgot something about this kit's instructions.

Bleaching time is suspiciously short, 3:00 to 4:20. My first film had some kind of "streaking", some rather irregular areas with different colour. It only happened in few frames that I didn't really care for, so I didn't rebleach - fix. If this kit is a rebrand of the Fuji-Hunt C41 kit, then bleaching time should be 6:30, a time I used for all other films and had no further problems. Actually, time in the bleaching stage is AFAIK not really critical, as long as it's long enough. In other words, leaving it a bit longer won't hurt.