Compact, reliable MF camera recommendation

[hugov]

Hi,
I'm looking for a camera (system) recommendation for medium format. I want something compact, with great lenses, and reliable and serviceable (ideally mechanical). I'm can put up with slower lenses (prefer small/light), manual/unmetered operation, non-through-the-lens framing and slow, deliberate operation. The camera that appeals to me most of the Bronica RF645 and the collapsible Mamiya 6, but I'm worried about reliability in both cases. Are there any other cameras I've missed?
Thanks,
Hugo
Edit: for reference, my preferred 35mm cameras are my Leica M6, Nikon FM2, and Rollei 35 S compact.

 

[frank]

IMO, the best compact MF camera is the Perkeo ll.

 

[R.Gould]

Anything by Voigtlander or Zeiss Ikon or any of the old German camera makers, for compactness look for a folder in nice condition, preferably one with a built in rangedinder, I can personally reccomend Balda super baldax, Franka Solida 2 rf, or any non rangefinder camera with a seperate rangefinder, available for around £5,

 

[rthollenbeck]

The Hasselblad SWC is a great piece of gear. I wouldn't call the rest of the system compact however.

 

[Paul Howell]

The Bronica and Mamiya 6 are 2 different subspecies, the Mamiya folder is well over 50 years old, the newer Mamiya 6 is not a folder. I have a folder, the lens is very sharp, takes S VI adapter and filters, but is fixed lens, a new Mamiya 6 like the Bronica are interchangeable. If you print 8X10 6X6 is the same as 6X4.5.

 

[macfred]

A useful comparison of 120 folders : http://www.120folder.com/compa.htm

 

[Alan Gales]

If you print rectangles then a Fuji 645 camera would work. They have very sharp lenses. Of course you would be stuck with one lens.

 

[brian steinberger]

I have both the Bronica RF645 and the Mamiya 6. I can highly recommend both. They are great cameras. Reliability is no different than any other camera. As long as you take care of it and have CLAs done regularly you'll be fine. There are threads here that compare the two. Or feel free to PM me.

 

[Simonh82]

I get the impression that the OP was talking about the newer Mamiya 6, which has lenses which collapse back into the body somewhat when not in use. It's not a folder, but this is a nice feature to save space.

I can't offer an opinion on either camera though but perhaps it might be good to clear up any confusion over which Mamiya 6 you are talking about so that others can respond accordingly.

 

[gzhuang]

Bronica RF645 is a strong contender but not cheap.

The camera that appeals to me most of the Bronica RF645 and the collapsible Mamiya 6, but I'm worried about reliability in both cases.

 

[hugov]

I get the impression that the OP was talking about the newer Mamiya 6, which has lenses which collapse back into the body somewhat when not in use. It's not a folder, but this is a nice feature to save space.

Yes, sorry, I should have been more clear. I was referring to the modern Mamiya 6, the rangefinder with a lens mount that can collapse partially into the body to make it smaller. Basically I'm looking for something like one of these camera systems, but mechanical and better build quality. I'm not sure such a camera system exists. Thanks for the folder recommendations, I will research them and see if I like them.

 

[bdial]

The Mamiya 7 comes to mind, astounding optics, not sure if it fits the "compact" requirement though.
How about something like the Bessa III rangefinder?

 

[brian steinberger]

Basically I'm looking for something like one of these camera systems, but mechanical and better build quality. I'm not sure such a camera system exists. Thanks for the folder recommendations, I will research them and see if I like them.

This would be my dream camera. I would love to have a 6x4.5 or 6x6 all mechanical RF with interchangeable lenses. There is no such camera system AFAIK.

 

[TheTrailTog]

This would be my dream camera. I would love to have a 6x4.5 or 6x6 all mechanical RF with interchangeable lenses. There is no such camera system AFAIK.

How about a Plaubel Makina III?

http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Plaubel_Makina
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Plaubel-Makina-III-with-GG-Back-Roll-Holder-More-/181737185504 (No affiliation to seller)

 

[VisualDarkness]

One of the Voigtländer Bessas?
Also the Zenobia R I had for a while felt like a really interesting small camera but sadly it was broken badly, felt quite solid but light anyway.

 

[frank]

IMO, the best compact MF camera is the Perkeo ll.

I'll add the Plaubel Makina. It's also a fixed lens but you have a choice of model with normal 80mm and wide 55mm.

 

[flavio81]

Ok,

"compact" rules out all 6x6 and 6x7 SLR cameras
"reliable" rules out russian cameras, some Bronicas, and perhaps some Hassies as well.

Compact and reliable is the Mamiya 6 or Mamiya 7 rangefinder but they are expensive.

Folder cameras are compact and reliable BUT if they have no rangefinder, they are not easy to use because DOF is very narrow. Also many suffer from bad alignment of either the focus scale ring, or of the front standard. In such case they will give good results compared to 35mm but not compared to a very good MF camera.

Your best bet is then a Rolleicord, or a Yashica TLR (with the "yashiNON" lens). Or the equally good, overhyped Minolta Autocord.

 

[flavio81]

One of the Voigtländer Bessas?

The Bessa folders (non-rangefinders) have a very flimsy front standard. An Ensign Selfix 820 is a tank compared to a V. Bessa.

Also the Zenobia R I had for a while felt like a really interesting small camera but sadly it was broken badly, felt quite solid but light anyway.

I have a 6x4.5 Zenobia folder and it seems it's the only folder I'll keep. It is really sharp, and really compact. Folders i will not keep: Agfa Record III, Ensign Selfix 820, Zeiss-Ikon Ikonta 517/16.

DOF in 6x4.5 format is not as shallow as the others, so scale focusing is usable.

 

[anfenglin]

Yes, how about a Rolleicord? I have a III with the wonderful Xenar 3.5 which produces wonderfully sharp and crips images. I threw out the old screen and put in a Rick Oleson screen. Also, if you look for a III you don't pay the premium for the Vs, you pay for things you IMHO don't really need. It is also very light and reliable, when properly serviced it works for a lifetime. The Vs also have the Xenar, since the lens is all that matters, the difference to the III is not that big.
These images are made with my beloved 'cord:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/anfenglin/16635495112/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/anfenglin/16636511625/in/dateposted-public/

I also own a very lovely Fuji GA645, the lens is super sharp, the camera is light and it is very compact since the lens barrel retracts. It is a little bit noisy but not too much, using it in a museum is sure to get everyone's attention though. The results are astonishing. Most of the images on my flickr stream are made with this camera. The plastic is very sturdy, I took mine on countless trips to ruins and dusty and moist places, It has a few scratches but nothing serious, I think this will live through a smack on a hard floor, provided it doesn't fall on the lens.
Both have a fixed lens, though. In my opinion you are fine with one lens. You learn to work with it, you get better with motives which makes you a better photographer.

 

[nosmok]

I have to come out in favor of old folders too. I have used a lot of them and most have been a treat to use. Even the scale focus 6x9s can be tamed by a rangefinder. Currently I think the best bang for the buck models may be later Ensign Selfix models (820, 1220 or 1620) with coated Ross Xpres front focusing optics. There is nothing wrong with that lens at all -- snappy and contrasty, well color corrected, nearly the equal of the APO version on the Autorange 820 (which is the sharpest lens I've ever seen). Many examples a couple hundred or under. The Epsilon shutter has a limited top speed (1/250) but is apparently simple and easy to work on and keep going. Like a British car engine that doesn't leak oil .

50's Frankas are a good choice too: the Solida III in 6x6 with a Schneider Radionar a fast (f/2.9) triplet with great color rendition, and an uncoupled RF;and the 6x9 Rolfix with the Rodenstock Trinar 105-- one of my favorite lenses of all time. By the 50s these will have coated lenses and be quite sharp and wonderful and a hundred fifty bucks or less.

There are tons of others-- just be patient and you can even now find cool old folders for a reasonable price.

 

[flavio81]

I can second the recommendation on the Rolleicord. The 75/3.5 Schneider Xenar on mine is as sharp as it gets. A totally professional lens.

 

[jspillane]

If you don't need interchangable lenses, I would vote for a Rolleiflex, either 3.5 or 2.8 Planar/Xenotar. Refresh the mirror / ground glass and you will have a killer camera, really no need for anything more unless you must have additional lenses. 3.5 Tessar style TLR's (Rolleiflex Automat, Rolleicord, Yashica's, Minolta Autocord, etc.) are also great, cheaper and lighter alternatives.

If you are looking for a true 'system', I don't think the Bronica RF or Mamiya 6/7 offer enough in that regard. I'd look at the smaller 6x4.5 and 6x6 SLRs (although they are probably not as small as what you are hoping to find).

 

[mindthemix]

You can't go wrong with the Franka Solida IIIe. Compactness at its best with a stunning lens.

Photos of the camera and some recent shots below:

 

[jspillane]

Best hybrid of usability, image quality, reliability and (relatively) small size is a TLR. I would recommend a Rolleicord, Rolleiflex 3.5 model, or Autocord.

I use a Rolleiflex 2.8D as my travel camera; the 3.5's are definitely lighter, but I personally prefer to have the extra half stop Xenotar(/Planar) design and the slight weight addition is worth it. Go for a meterless model for additional weight savings. For the quality and usability, the size and weight of these cameras is honestly pretty remarkable.

I never really got into folders, but maybe I just haven't used the right one... I just don't really like focusing without a proper ground glass. Ditto to rangefinders, which I find to be somewhat unsatisfying (personally).

EDIT:
Saw you specified system camera. I think your only serious options are Mamiya 6/7 and Bronica RF645. The smallest other thing I can think of is a Hasselblad, which is definitely larger, especially if you move away from the 80mm lens.

 

[Malinku]

Ricoh Diacords are another good option for a 6x6 TLR. They are as good as any of the Yashica TLRs.