compact medium format camera

[muhco3]

Hello
I'm not new to the medium format world , I have dealt with some vintage and other cameras before

Long story short ,I'm looking for the most compact (any negative size ) camera with auto winding and build-in light meter with auto-focus , the budget is up to 800 $
I have did an extensive research and found only two options in the sub 800$ price point
1-Fujifilm GA 645ZI or its other varieties
2-Pentax 645N
What I understood is that the pentax has interchangeable lens (the interchangeable back is very strange since you can't change it in the middle of the roll )
Is there any other suggestion ? or which on you recommend ?

 

[MattKing]

Welcome to Photrio.
I expect that the two options you have listed are the only two options with auto focus and your price range.
The Mamiya 645 AFD might come close.
As for the Pentax, they don't have backs, but they do offer interchangeable inserts, which permit rapid unloading and re-loading if one is photographing things like weddings.

 

[muhco3]

Thanks Matt for the clarification regarding the Pentax ,
I searched for the MAMIYA 645 AFD and it is fairly close in terms of price to the previously mentioned cameras (depends on the condition , I found new old stock for 3500$ !!!!!)
The Mamiya it looks more attractive than the Pentax with the interchangeable backs and ability to use even digital backs + it seems Mamiya lenses slightly cheaper than Pentax

 

[pentaxuser]

I have a P645N, a great camera and I suppose it depends on your definition of compact but it doesn't met my definition. Check out its dimensions and weight and then decide

pentaxuser

 

[Oren Grad]

The autofocus 645 SLRs are far larger and heavier than the Fuji GA 645 cameras. If compactness is an issue it's the Fujis all the way.

FWIW, I've owned the Mamiya 645 AFD III, also the manual Fuji GS645S camera, though I no longer have either one. The Mamiya has many virtues, but it's a boat anchor. I found it very unwieldy for hand-held use, and if I'm going to carry that kind of weight and put it on a tripod I prefer a larger negative than 6x4.5. So I sold it. As always, YMMV.

 

[guangong]

My recommendations for compact MF camera are beyond your budget, but compact and small in size but big in quality comes at a price. For compact with on board meter but no autofocus, I use Fuji 670 folder and Makina 67. Without meter, Super Ikonta B. I suppose there are situations where auto focus is necessary, but I have never felt the need. My only autofocus is my Contax T3, which attracted me primarily because of its size.
I don’t see the point in 645 except if more shoots per roll is important. Otherwise, not that much better than 35mm. Come to think of it, a Hasselblad is about as compact as MF gets.i have a 645 back for Hassy but seldom use it.
It’s better to hold off and save to buy quality equipment. Cheaper in the long run.

 

[spijker]

I have a Mamiya 645 AFDIII as my main film camera. While it's not small, it's probably one of the smallest medium format SLRs with autowinder, autofocus and built-in TTL AE metering. You can go smaller but then you'll lose functionality; no autofocus, no winder, no TTL-metering, no interchangeable backs etc. If compact is key then the Fuji GA645 is hard to beat. I think the Mamiya 645 AFDs are smaller than the Hasselblad V-series with a AE prism and a winder attached and still no autofocus. To me the AFDIII handles very well handheld due to the grip and the prism finder. And I find that the autofocus is a very nice to have. It also gives you focus confirmation with manual focus. Lenses are of good quality, affordable and fairly easy to get. If you're patient, you can get the AF-D lenses for a good price. That's what I did. Just be aware that the Phase One leaf shutter lenses do NOT work on the Mamiya AFD series, only on the DF but those can't use film backs.

Personally I find 645 a good balance between camera size and negative size. Plus you can get a modern camera with modern features. The AFDIII with the 80mm AF-D lens fits in the holster that I bought for my Canon 5D2 with the 24-105mm lens to give you an idea about the size. A 645 negative is 2.7x larger than 35mm so definitely an improvement. How large do you print? My standard print size is 11x14" and also I've made nice 16x20" prints from the 645 negatives. Anyway, just my opinion.

 

[Pioneer]

The Fuji GA645 is a terrific option and is probably the smallest option for what you are looking for.

The Pentax 645 camera series are absolutely marvelous cameras but I wouldn't consider any of them particularly compact.

And anyone who says that 35mm is just as good as 6x4.5 is fooling with you. It is kind of like saying there isn't much difference between 4x5 and 6x9. There is a huge difference in those negatives.

 

[muhco3]

I have a P645N, a great camera and I suppose it depends on your definition of compact but it doesn't met my definition. Check out its dimensions and weight and then decide

pentaxuser

well the P645N might not be the lightest camera in the world but it is relatively small(it almost weights 2 Lb) But in comparison to other medium formats such as bronica ETR/SQ series it is considered small

The autofocus 645 SLRs are far larger and heavier than the Fuji GA 645 cameras. If compactness is an issue it's the Fujis all the way.

FWIW, I've owned the Mamiya 645 AFD III, also the manual Fuji GS645S camera, though I no longer have either one. The Mamiya has many virtues, but it's a boat anchor. I found it very unwieldy for hand-held use, and if I'm going to carry that kind of weight and put it on a tripod I prefer a larger negative than 6x4.5. So I sold it. As always, YMMV.

The Fuji GA 645 is a sexy camera ,however it have this strange orientation where it shoots in portrait orientation instead of landscape

My recommendations for compact MF camera are beyond your budget, but compact and small in size but big in quality comes at a price. For compact with on board meter but no autofocus, I use Fuji 670 folder and Makina 67. Without meter, Super Ikonta B. I suppose there are situations where auto focus is necessary, but I have never felt the need. My only autofocus is my Contax T3, which attracted me primarily because of its size.
I don’t see the point in 645 except if more shoots per roll is important. Otherwise, not that much better than 35mm. Come to think of it, a Hasselblad is about as compact as MF gets.i have a 645 back for Hassy but seldom use it.
It’s better to hold off and save to buy quality equipment. Cheaper in the long run.

Fuji 670 folder looks great but it is way beyond my budget I found it ranging from 2500-4000 $ depending on the condition
I tend to disagree with you regarding the 645 format , it is not as good as 6x6 or higher but still step up from 35mm

Probably I'll consider waiting and increasing the budget for more options .

 

[muhco3]

I have a Mamiya 645 AFDIII as my main film camera. While it's not small, it's probably one of the smallest medium format SLRs with autowinder, autofocus and built-in TTL AE metering. You can go smaller but then you'll lose functionality; no autofocus, no winder, no TTL-metering, no interchangeable backs etc. If compact is key then the Fuji GA645 is hard to beat. I think the Mamiya 645 AFDs are smaller than the Hasselblad V-series with a AE prism and a winder attached and still no autofocus. To me the AFDIII handles very well handheld due to the grip and the prism finder. And I find that the autofocus is a very nice to have. It also gives you focus confirmation with manual focus. Lenses are of good quality, affordable and fairly easy to get. If you're patient, you can get the AF-D lenses for a good price. That's what I did. Just be aware that the Phase One leaf shutter lenses do NOT work on the Mamiya AFD series, only on the DF but those can't use film backs.

Personally I find 645 a good balance between camera size and negative size. Plus you can get a modern camera with modern features. The AFDIII with the 80mm AF-D lens fits in the holster that I bought for my Canon 5D2 with the 24-105mm lens to give you an idea about the size. A 645 negative is 2.7x larger than 35mm so definitely an improvement. How large do you print? My standard print size is 11x14" and also I've made nice 16x20" prints from the 645 negatives. Anyway, just my opinion.

The Mamiya 645 AFDIII comes with a hefty price tag of around 3k , but the AFD has a good price
I do print 11x14" max

The Fuji GA645 is a terrific option and is probably the smallest option for what you are looking for.

The Pentax 645 camera series are absolutely marvelous cameras but I wouldn't consider any of them particularly compact.

And anyone who says that 35mm is just as good as 6x4.5 is fooling with you. It is kind of like saying there isn't much difference between 4x5 and 6x9. There is a huge difference in those negatives.

The Fuji GA645 seems to the best option as it balances the good price with features and compactness despite its weird portrait orientation

Yes, the Fuji GA645 series is the only camera that meets your criteria. There're nothing else that ticks all of the checkmarks.

If you want more options, which criteria are you willing to drop?

Lets drop the auto winding and keep the light meter and AF and stretch the budget up to 1200-1300$ I want it to be suitable for travel (I don't do studio photography)

 

[Oren Grad]

well the P645N might not be the lightest camera in the world but it is relatively small(it almost weights 2 Lb)

With 75mm lens, batteries and film, it weighs close to 4 pounds.

Lets drop the auto winding and keep the light meter and AF and stretch the budget up to 1200-1300$ I want it to be suitable for travel (I don't do studio photography)

Doesn't change anything. The AF cameras all have autowind.

 

[spijker]

The Mamiya 645 AFDIII comes with a hefty price tag of around 3k , but the AFD has a good price
I do print 11x14" max
The Fuji GA645 seems to the best option as it balances the good price with features and compactness despite its weird portrait orientation
Lets drop the auto winding and keep the light meter and AF and stretch the budget up to 1200-1300$ I want it to be suitable for travel (I don't do studio photography)

3k is way too much. You shouldn't pay more than 1k for used in good condition. I got mine in like-new condition from Capture Integration, an official Phase One dealer, for less than 1 k and, if I remember well, with some warranty. They also gave me a good price on the Li-ion battery with charger. This battery lasts a very long time. I got my lenses from ebay and KEH. Keep an eye on the various reputable stores and forums like getdpi.com and luminous-landscape.com. I bring both the Mamiya and the 5D2 on practically all my travel. What's the use of nice equipment if you leave it at home. I agree that the GA645 would be the best option if you don't mind the fixed lens. I've received very nice prints through the blind print exchange that were made with this camera. If you print 11x14 max, you may want to consider a 35mm camera with good quality image-stabilized lenses. That way you can use a 2..4x lower ISO film than with medium format and the difference with medium format will be small. The 35mm cameras are smaller, cheaper and have better AF than the medium format cameras.

 

[muhco3]

With 75mm lens, batteries and film, it weighs close to 4 pounds.

Doesn't change anything. The AF cameras all have autowind.

Let's keep only the light meter then

3k is way too much. You shouldn't pay more than 1k for used in good condition. I got mine in like-new condition from Capture Integration, an official Phase One dealer, for less than 1 k and, if I remember well, with some warranty. They also gave me a good price on the Li-ion battery with charger. This battery lasts a very long time. I got my lenses from ebay and KEH. Keep an eye on the various reputable stores and forums like getdpi.com and luminous-landscape.com. I bring both the Mamiya and the 5D2 on practically all my travel. What's the use of nice equipment if you leave it at home. I agree that the GA645 would be the best option if you don't mind the fixed lens. I've received very nice prints through the blind print exchange that were made with this camera. If you print 11x14 max, you may want to consider a 35mm camera with good quality image-stabilized lenses. That way you can use a 2..4x lower ISO film than with medium format and the difference with medium format will be small. The 35mm cameras are smaller, cheaper and have better AF than the medium format cameras.

Ebay is not relatable source in terms of prices , KEH are decent but lately their stock seems to be running low ,
Regarding the 35mm I do intend use it , I have two SLRs minolta maxxum 3xi & Canon Elan 7E and they are great , but I want to sue medium format

Seems the Fuji 645 is the viable option until now

 

[Oren Grad]

Let's keep only the light meter then

Fuji GS645, GS645S, GS645W.

Yashica Mat 124G, Minolta Autocord CDS - not sure about the battery situation with these, the Yashica will likely be easier to find.

There are a few other '60s vintage TLRs with selenium-cell meters, coupled or uncoupled. Probably not worth the hassle to try to find one with a meter that works well enough to be practical.

You can add a metered finder to Mamiya TLRs, but those are hardly compact, especially with anything beyond the standard folding WLF.

The various '80s-vintage manual focus medium format SLRs with meters will generally be big and heavy. Possibly the Mamiya 645E shaves off a few ounces compared to a Pentax 645. (EDIT: before anyone calls me on it, yes, the 645E is a much later addition to the Mamiya 645 line.)

 

[kahlheins]

Let's keep only the light meter then



Ebay is not relatable source in terms of prices , KEH are decent but lately their stock seems to be running low ,
Regarding the 35mm I do intend use it , I have two SLRs minolta maxxum 3xi & Canon Elan 7E and they are great , but I want to sue medium format

Seems the Fuji 645 is the viable option until now

Don't forget the Fuji GS645 as well since you dropped the other requirements. Has a built in light meter and is even smaller and cheaper than the GA645. The synthetic bellows do tend to show light leaks though apparently.

 

[btaylor]

if you’re going to regress all the way to a Yashica Mat 124 (I have never had one) the smallest, lightest MF camera I use is a Rolleicord Va and a Gossen Digisix. Cheap, amazing image quality.

 

[wyofilm]

I have the Bronica RF 645 range finder. It is a wonderful camera that isn't quite as small as a folder, but really is very handy to carry around. Lenses are tack sharp and metering is excellent. The downside for me is that 100 mm is the longest lens available, which is why for Christmas 2019 Santa brought me a Pentax 645 NII. The Pentax 645 is very large and bulky compared to the Bronica RF 545.

When I want real portability - I go with folders. I love them.

A 6x4.5 neg is superior to 35mm film in real estate and aspect ratio if one is looking to print on 8x10 paper, for example.

 

[eli griggs]

The Super Ikonta B is small enough to drop into a jacket pocket, tight as a drum construction and Jena Glass. add a small Leica meter or shoot Sunny 16 and you're all set with a solid 6 x 6cm camera you can easily tote just about any where.

I forgot, the Camera, with a CLA, will leave you with plenty of cash for film, filters, a new strap, etc.

Another really small medium format, the 4 x 4 cm Sawyers Mark V, aka, Primo Jr., TLR, all mechanical, no meter, uses 127 films, which you can roll from bulk film or 120 rolls, is a great camera, with very close focus, and clean and sharp images, as well.

 

[guangong]

Super Ikonta B may be small enough to drop into pocket, but jacket better be made of canvass. I either carry mine in hand, around neck or in bag. Nonetheless, great cameras and very convenient.

 

[eli griggs]

Super Ikonta B may be small enough to drop into pocket, but jacket better be made of canvass. .

Or good Filson wool, like mine.

Cheers

 

[muhco3]

Fuji GS645, GS645S, GS645W.

Yashica Mat 124G, Minolta Autocord CDS - not sure about the battery situation with these, the Yashica will likely be easier to find.

There are a few other '60s vintage TLRs with selenium-cell meters, coupled or uncoupled. Probably not worth the hassle to try to find one with a meter that works well enough to be practical.

You can add a metered finder to Mamiya TLRs, but those are hardly compact, especially with anything beyond the standard folding WLF.

The various '80s-vintage manual focus medium format SLRs with meters will generally be big and heavy. Possibly the Mamiya 645E shaves off a few ounces compared to a Pentax 645. (EDIT: before anyone calls me on it, yes, the 645E is a much later addition to the Mamiya 645 line.)

Don't forget the Fuji GS645 as well since you dropped the other requirements. Has a built in light meter and is even smaller and cheaper than the GA645. The synthetic bellows do tend to show light leaks though apparently.

Well the Fuji 645/645 s there is no much price difference in-between them and GA645 series (depending on the condition but the difference is around 150 $)
The GA645zi is superior in my opinion due to the relatively good price and having AF,AE and audio winding the down side of both GS and GA is the weird portrait-orientation

if you’re going to regress all the way to a Yashica Mat 124 (I have never had one) the smallest, lightest MF camera I use is a Rolleicord Va and a Gossen Digisix. Cheap, amazing image quality.

Hopefully I will not regress to TLR in general I may purchase one ,but it would be a second camera not my primary one

 

[muhco3]

I have the Bronica RF 645 range finder. It is a wonderful camera that isn't quite as small as a folder, but really is very handy to carry around. Lenses are tack sharp and metering is excellent. The downside for me is that 100 mm is the longest lens available, which is why for Christmas 2019 Santa brought me a Pentax 645 NII. The Pentax 645 is very large and bulky compared to the Bronica RF 545.

When I want real portability - I go with folders. I love them.

A 6x4.5 neg is superior to 35mm film in real estate and aspect ratio if one is looking to print on 8x10 paper, for example.

Bronica RF 645 looks good but the price is not , starts from around 1300$ onward

The Super Ikonta B is small enough to drop into a jacket pocket, tight as a drum construction and Jena Glass. add a small Leica meter or shoot Sunny 16 and you're all set with a solid 6 x 6cm camera you can easily tote just about any where.

I forgot, the Camera, with a CLA, will leave you with plenty of cash for film, filters, a new strap, etc.

Another really small medium format, the 4 x 4 cm Sawyers Mark V, aka, Primo Jr., TLR, all mechanical, no meter, uses 127 films, which you can roll from bulk film or 120 rolls, is a great camera, with very close focus, and clean and sharp images, as well.

Super Ikonta B may be small enough to drop into pocket, but jacket better be made of canvass. I either carry mine in hand, around neck or in bag. Nonetheless, great cameras and very convenient.

In terms of permeative cameras I have Anesco/Agfa folder 6x6 that works fine

Or good Filson wool, like mine.

Cheers

 

[abruzzi]

The GA645zi is superior in my opinion due to the relatively good price and having AF,AE and audio winding the down side of both GS and GA is the weird portrait-orientation

The GA645zi has an achilles heel and thats the LCD on the door. It has a tendency to fail, and once it does certain things like setting the ISO becomes much more difficult. I specifically bought one that listed working LCD, mine works fine when the door is closed, but when you open it, you can see bits of the LCD go out. So I know its on the path to dying.

 

[muhco3]

The GA645zi has an achilles heel and thats the LCD on the door. It has a tendency to fail, and once it does certain things like setting the ISO becomes much more difficult. I specifically bought one that listed working LCD, mine works fine when the door is closed, but when you open it, you can see bits of the LCD go out. So I know its on the path to dying.

Nice point , I have seen many cameras for sale on Ebay marked as mint and in the comments they say "LCD is not working" , and I don't think fixing it would be an easy task

Thank for the heads up

 

[abruzzi]

That phrase got me wondering, so I checked eBay, and as far as I can tell a $750 GA645Zi is more of a mid-priced paperweight:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tiffany-St...827063?hash=item420a404a77:g:dfUAAOSwRBFdn9QT