Compact enlarger - Difference between Durst F60 v M600?

Hi. I was looking to buy a compact medium format enlarger (6x6), something that I can, ideally, pack away between uses. I did a search of the forums and the two enlargers which appear to be recommended (and generally available in the UK/EU) are the Durst F60 and the Durst M600.

Does anyone know what the difference between these two enlargers is? Which produces better images? Which is more compact? Which is easier to get parts for if things go wrong?

I am new to all this, so would appreciate any guidance that you could provide. Thanks.

The F60 is a budget enlarger, less common, cheap column possibly not as tall, less practical negative carriers. The M600 is old hard to get parts for (I have used one in the early 1070's).

Go for an M601, M605, M670 with a colour head as they are useful for Multigrade papers,

Ian

Thank you for the reply and the suggestions. Unfortunately it has resulted in me having more questions .

Are the M601, M605 and M670 as compact as the M600? Or at least capable of being easily disassembled and boxed away. This is probably more import to me than simply being compact I guess.

Is the colour head really the best option (or perhaps the only option)? Is it not possible to get these with vario contrast black and white heads?

Are there any other enlargers you would recommend over any of these that would fit 6x6 and ease of storage requirements? I am in the UK btw.

Also I am really surprised by the prices for these things. Durst M605 going for close to £400 on ebay, and I am not even sure it has everything I need. Has something happened to Enlarger prices in the last 2-3 years? I got a Leitz Focomat v35 with the B&W head a while ago with two lenses and all the accessories for less than £200 a few years ago. Unfortunately I haven't got around to shooting 35mm yet ....

The F60 is 35mm only. It is very compact compared to the M600 series. If you need MF capability then the 600 series is as compact as you're going to find.

My Minolta Mod III 6x7 enlarger is great. It assembles and disassembles with no tools. The column slides up and off, automatically engaging and disengaging from the springs with nothing to unhook after removing the top 4 thumbscrews. The baseboard comes off with the supplied allen wrench that serves as a carriage stop. The head comes apart in a modular fashion after removing two more thumb screws.

Very well built and designed. Almost everything in the picture (except the focus knob) is aluminum. Very little plastic.

I remember when I bought this new in 1974. It was next to an Omega B22 and it looked like some futuristic space-age device compared to the Omega.

A little paradox about that Minolta Mod III (and maybe applies to other enlargers). The whole thing is MOST COMPACT when it is all assembled. With it in its individual pieces it requires quite a few big boxes to store everything safely.

Thanks for the suggestions. I did a search and can't find an available Minolta at the moment. In any case, It is quite important for me that it packs away efficiently as my work space is reasonably large, but my storage space is not.

Regarding the Durst M605, there appear to be a few available on the market. Grateful for any info on what would be a fair price to pay for one of these, what items I should make sure it comes with and what I should look out for in terms of condition (I read that they can have alignment issues).

Also, they seem to come with different heads, which I don't quite understand. Is there one that you recommend? What is the difference between the condenser head and the Dicrho head? Which one would you recommend and is there a way to tell them apart by looking at them (the colour head the condenser head)?

And, sorry, one more thing, is the M605 still compact and easy to pack away?

Arvee said:

The F60 is 35mm only. It is very compact compared to the M600 series. If you need MF capability then the 600 series is as compact as you're going to find.

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That would be the F30. The F60 is 6x6.

Bob Bibab said:

Hi. I was looking to buy a compact medium format enlarger (6x6), something that I can, ideally, pack away between uses. I did a search of the forums and the two enlargers which appear to be recommended (and generally available in the UK/EU) are the Durst F60 and the Durst M600.

Does anyone know what the difference between these two enlargers is? Which produces better images? Which is more compact? Which is easier to get parts for if things go wrong?

I am new to all this, so would appreciate any guidance that you could provide. Thanks.

Click to expand...

Heh, I was just looking at these two enlargers myself, and I just three seconds ago went ahead with the M600. There is a F60 on "Swedish ebay" called tradera that is ending in an hour or something like that.

eatfrog said:

Heh, I was just looking at these two enlargers myself, and I just three seconds ago went ahead with the M600. There is a F60 on "Swedish ebay" called tradera that is ending in an hour or something like that.

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Thanks for heads-up about the F60. Looks like it is Swedish buyers only unfortunately ... But it does look very small!

I have my eyes on an M605 right now. Just want to make sure it is not a mistake (people haven't really talked about this model as compact) and that I am getting the right type.

Have you looked at the Meopta’s? There are hundreds of them on local auction sites, free or almost free. With or without colorhead, very compact and usually a suitcase like box is included.
Regards,
Frank

Frank53 said:

Have you looked at the Meopta’s? There are hundreds of them on local auction sites, free or almost free. With or without colorhead, very compact and usually a suitcase like box is included.
Regards,
Frank

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I did briefly look for a Meopta 6 on EBay but nothing came up. The problem for me seems to be that I actually don't know where to look (other than ebay). What auctions sites would you suggest? Is there a particular Meopta you had in mind and do they compare well to the Durst?

Bob Bibab said:

Also, they seem to come with different heads, which I don't quite understand. Is there one that you recommend? What is the difference between the condenser head and the Dicrho head? Which one would you recommend and is there a way to tell them apart by looking at them (the colour head the condenser head)?

And, sorry, one more thing, is the M605 still compact and easy to pack away?

Click to expand...

The Durst enlargers tend to have vertical columns, rather than angled columns, which means they take up a different shape of space when you take off the head assembly. They also tended to have moderately small baseboards. All of which make it a bit easier to store them in a corner somewhere - say on the floor of a cupboard.
As for the light sources, the condenser heads are simpler, but the dichro colour heads have built in colour filtration control which makes using colour papers easy, and variable contrast black and white papers efficient. The dichro sources provide more diffused light, so dust and scratches are minimized as well. Given the choice, I prefer the dichro heads, but some prefer the slightly higher base contrast and acutance that a condenser source provides.

Bob Bibab said:

I did briefly look for a Meopta 6 on EBay but nothing came up. The problem for me seems to be that I actually don't know where to look (other than ebay). What auctions sites would you suggest? Is there a particular Meopta you had in mind and do they compare well to the Durst?

Click to expand...

There are many on the local auction site here, but it’s all in Dutch, but i.e. secondhanddarkroom in the UK offers a few at reasonable prices.
Regards,
Frank

I found this picture of what looks like a Durst 605. Seems to break down in to some manageable pieces. I really like all the late model Durst enlargers, so I'd recommend it but I like Durst, so I say that to anyone considering one.

I have the M605 but have had to put it up once only as I have a permanent darkroom but from what I recall I don't think I'd like to have to disassemble it after each printing session although no doubt after a few assemble/disassemble sessions you could do it more quickly. If we know how often you would want to assemble/disassemble it and how long you would consider acceptable for each session then this might help

I take it that there is no possibility of placing it on a trolley and wheeling it out of the workspace which I presume has to be converted back to whatever its normal purpose is and has no storage space available when it is reconverted back to its normal use?

It's a good sturdy enlarger and I have seen no alignment issues with it . Given that colour head Dursts have more to go wrong than B&W ones which have inbuilt filter drawers so no messing about with under the lens filter attachments then unless colour printing is a must I'd go for the B&W enlarger

pentaxuser

According to the Durst M600 manual the dismantled enlarger needs just as much space as the baseboard plus some extra height. And it can be assembled/disassembled without tools which might be an advantage.
The M605 column needs a lot more storage space - compare it with the photo above.

I just have to say thanks again for all your replies. This has been very helpful.

That picture of the Durst M605 is very informative. It looks quite large still and I see what you mean about the column length, but this may still work.

I suspect I will not be printing more often than once a month, I suspect possibly less frequently. I will probably save up all the negatives and print them all in one hit over a day or two on the weekend. I will be setting up in the bathroom. It will probably be ok for the enlarger to be set up in the bathroom for the day or two that I will be using it on and off, but I would not want to permanently keep it in there.

In terms of storage - ideally I would like to store on the same floor as the bathroom, rather than in the cellar. The cellar can get quite damp, is already crowded and would be pain having to carry it up and down the stairs. So storing it under the bed, or even better in or on top the cupboard would be the ideal solution. The top of cupboard in the hallway outside the bathroom may actually provide the best solution. There is 50cm between the top of the cupboard and the ceiling. The top has a surface area of 60cm x 120cm. Unless I am underestimating the height of the column, or the dimension of that baseboard, then once pulled apart as in the picture, all of the pieces should fit comfortably on top of the cupboard and out of site. Or am I missing something?

Is that frequency of assembling and dissembling likely to harm the enlarger?

An M605 can be quickly broken down into 3 parts, the Head the Column and the Baseboard, of course the transformer & timer are separate. It's made for easy assembly disassembly just two large screw knows. That photo shows the head split but that's to allow a B&W condenser head a diffuser colour head is better.

Ian

Arvee said:

The F60 is 35mm only. It is very compact compared to the M600 series. If you need MF capability then the 600 series is as compact as you're going to find.

Click to expand...

The F60 was multiformat. I owned one when I lived in Germany between 1976 and 1980. I used both 35mm and 6x6 so yes it was available. I only had the 6x6 negative carrier so had to make a mask to be used when I used 35mm. I used both a 50 and 75mm F4.5 Minolta enlarging lenses.

The lack of height, was easily improved by mounting the column on a small base screwed to the wall. As it was I could just scrape a 10x12 enlargement but after the wall mounting this improved to 12 x16. I could not go any further because I was running out of focussing movement

Bob Bibab said:

The top of cupboard in the hallway outside the bathroom may actually provide the best solution. There is 50cm between the top of the cupboard and the ceiling. The top has a surface area of 60cm x 120cm

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It should be possible to store a disassembled M605 in that space. You don't even need to take it as far apart as shown in the picture above. It should be possible to fit it into the storage space you describe in 3 simple steps:
* Plugging out the transformer
* Taking the head off the column (no tools required)
* Removing the column from the baseboard (this will require a set of spanners or equivalent to screw it loose).
You're then left with 4 modules which should fit in the space on top of your cupboard.

I personally have an M605, but I never took it further apart than described above - but I have the luxury of a permanent darkroom where it occupies a corner. I don't use it much these days as my Durst 138 is now my 'daily driver', but the M605 is a perfectly functional tool. If you get one, make sure that the transformer/power supply is included. Also check if the negative holder (I think this is the Durst 'sirioneg' if memory serves me) is there with a set of 6x6 masks (called 'sixma' and 'sivoma' - one is the lower mask and the other the upper half; both fit together into the negative holder with the negative in-between). I think there are also versions with AN glass, but I personally only have the glassless type and it works fine for me.

The M605 have came with a dichroic color head; I think those are the most common in Europe. Either this one will work fine for variable contrast printing, but e.g. a condensor head without dichroic/color filters will be fine too. You can always use the Ilford Multigrade below-the-lens filters. These are still available new and often pop up second hand as well. I never found a problem with using below the lens filters in terms of image quality. Some say/find that the Ilford filters do a better job at getting the highest contrast (grade 5) than what is achievable with the color head, but others disagree. YMMV.

Obviously, you want a lens to go with your enlarger; any decent 75mm lens will do. Most 2nd-hand enlargers come with at least one lens. The ones you come across may only come with a 50mm lens or a lens of doubtful quality, so it's possible that you'll have to find a lens separately. There are thousands being traded at any given time, so that shouldn't be a big problem.

In general, I'd say you don't want to buy enlarger parts separately, as pretty crazy prices are being asked for things like negative holders etc. There's a lively market for Durst components and sellers are very much aware of this. So usually it's a better deal if you can acquire a complete set from someone. The exception is the lens, which is more of a generic item and can usually be had at reasonable cost separate of other equipment.

Dare I suggest a more vintage Durst 606...a condenser enlarger that can handle 6 X 6 negs and smaller. It does have a glass negative carrier and has adjustable masks. Instruction manuals can be found on line. They can be had more cheaply but you have to be careful to get all the necessary parts. There are some limited parts on ebay. It is extremely compact and I'm sure would fit in your limited space.

That is really helpful information. Tbh, I had no idea what the accessories I needed to look for were.

I guess, now I just need to find a reasonably priced M605 (and failing that one of the other models). Unfortunately, the seller for the M605 I thought I was going to buy has gone awol...

Can I ask, is the M605 noticeably better buy than the M601? Or will I be ok with either. And where does the M670 into all of this? I ask, because the M605 seem to be the most expensive at the moment.

The M670 is a bit bigger, and will permit you to enlarge bigger negatives - 6x7.

Bob Bibab said:

Can I ask, is the M605 noticeably better buy than the M601?

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I haven't used the 601, so I can't really comment, but in the end, an enlarger is a bulb, some loght shaping optics, a negative stage and a baseboard with a column to hold it all together. As long as the head moves properly on the column, focus works and everything is in alignment, you're in business.
I briefly worked with a 1950s enlarger when I started out with 4x5 and it have me perfectly fine prints. More modern enlargers are sometimes a bit more user friendly, but the core concepts just havent changed much.