For Sale Comment about shipping from USA to other countries

brucemuir · Nov 1, 2011

When using USPS, the only option for foreign shipping available online is Priority Mail International.
Otherwise it requires a trip to the brick & mortar PO which is in general NOT a pleasant experience.
Customs forms can be downloaded but adds an additional hurdle.

My take on it is if the item is of sufficient value and the buyer will pay the extra charges for Priority Mail International and are an established member here I go out of my way to make it happen.

If it's a small item it's not worth it in time & hassle to me.

Alex Bishop-Thorpe · Nov 2, 2011

The vast majority of sellers outside the US routinely go to the trouble of shipping internationally, I've rarely found UK or Europe only sales, and usually only for bulky items that are impractical to ship. If somebody wants to pay me good money for something, and don't mind covering the shipping cost to their country, I'll happily stop by the post office on my lunch break.
The only even slight problem I've ever had with as sale on APUG was with a buyer in America, weirdly.

Joooorsh · Nov 2, 2011

I think I end up at the post office atleast twice a week. Just involves some patience.

Perhaps the rest of the world should stop offering shipping to the US?

Or international members shouldn't sell to those who place the dreaded CONUS ONLY in their classifieds.

Steve Smith · Nov 2, 2011

Is it partly because US residents have to go to the post office to ship internationally but can have their parcels picked up from their homes for domestic delivery?

We have to go to the post office wherever it is going to. Perhaps the US should have drive through post offices! (or perhaps you do).

Steve.

Vaughn · Nov 2, 2011

Steve Smith said:
That really annoys me as it's just as easy to send worldwide as it is domestically.

Steve.

Guilty as charged.

I don't do Pay Pal, and it costs me $10 to have a check from a foreign bank processed and deposited in my bank account (plus fill out a little paper work), so I guess I can just add that cost to foreign sales. But that might piss someone off too. So I'd rather piss people off and not hassle selling to them rather than having them get pissed off at me for charging them more and still have to hassle the international postage and paperwork.

So far, the limited amount of items I have sold have sold within the US -- I don't need the larger market. A larger market will not get me a higher price.

Vaughn

Joooorsh · Nov 2, 2011

Maybe just get paypal instead - its free and ibstills a lot more buyer confidence than a cheque.

mamypoko · Nov 2, 2011

I'm based in Singapore (South East Asia), and I always request US sellers to ship by Priority Mail International, as it has tracking and I can purchase the additional insurance if it is a high ticket item.

I have never asked the seller to under-declare the item value. Yes, I pay import tax if the item is above a certain value but I always insist on insurance. I had a friend's friend who lost a BP Leica M4 in post, and he could only claim back a fraction of the cost.

If the buyer can't afford the import duty/taxes, maybe he shouldn't be buying the item in the first place.

Carlin · Nov 2, 2011

Once Paypal issues a complete refund to an overseas buyer after and you've lost your money, time, and item with no recourse, you tend to think it's not worth the trouble. I did many overseas transactions successfully, but after a few of these headaches it made me change my policy. I wish it weren't so, but Paypal and eBay have sellers over a barrel.

Steve Smith · Nov 2, 2011

Carlin said:
Once Paypal issues a complete refund to an overseas buyer after and you've lost your money, time, and item with no recourse, you tend to think it's not worth the trouble.

How is it any different with a domestic buyer?

Steve.

Carlin · Nov 2, 2011

With a domestic buyer it is USPS the whole way. I can't take third party carriers and overseas customs offices into my exposure of liability, and that's what it boils down to for me.

lxdude · Nov 2, 2011

jnanian said:
it is really 6 of one and half a dozen of the other ...

Be aware that if you ship that phrase to England, you have to convert it to "6 and two threes".

Graham_Martin · Nov 2, 2011

What you gain on the swings, you lose on the roundabouts!
Translation will be provided upon request.

Steve Smith · Nov 2, 2011

lxdude said:
Be aware that if you ship that phrase to England, you have to convert it to "6 and two threes".

I'm English and I have never heard of that!

Steve.

lxdude · Nov 2, 2011

Steve Smith said:
I'm English and I have never heard of that!
Steve.

Yes, but you're not from the mainland!

Steve Smith · Nov 2, 2011

lxdude said:
Yes, but you're not from the mainland!

That's true.... However, I did go there once!

Steve.

lxdude · Nov 2, 2011

Steve Smith said:
That's true.... However, I did go there once!
Steve.

I've never been there, but I've known people from there- a Mancunian, a couple of Liverpudlians, a Yorkshireman, a guy from Shropshire, several from around London. The only thing is, they all speak with an accent!

olleorama · Nov 2, 2011

I'm the lucky guy who got the lenses in the OP, and I must say I was quite please with the time frame (but even more so with the lenses, thanks Graham!). I thought of two weeks or so.

The most bizarre delivery from the states I have experienced was with fedex, it was a caltar II-N from shutterblade, virginia. I paid on a monday night (CET), got the lenses on wednesday. How the h3ll is that even physically possible?

Graham_Martin · Nov 2, 2011

Olle, thanks for the nice comments. It was a pleasure doing business with you.

BrianShaw · Nov 2, 2011

brucemuir said:
When using USPS, the only option for foreign shipping available online is Priority Mail International.
Otherwise it requires a trip to the brick & mortar PO which is in general NOT a pleasant experience.
Customs forms can be downloaded but adds an additional hurdle.

My take on it is if the item is of sufficient value and the buyer will pay the extra charges for Priority Mail International and are an established member here I go out of my way to make it happen.

If it's a small item it's not worth it in time & hassle to me.

This was my recent experience trying to GIVE an old camera to someone who lives in Canada. He did not want to pay $20, and it wasn't worth my effort to save him $10 by going to the post office. Too bad.. he didn't get the camera and nobody else seemed to want it so I ended up sending it to the landfill.

Ian Grant · Nov 2, 2011

Graham_Martin said:
I have a theory about why many US sellers don't want to ship overseas. Before I retired I was in International Banking here in Florida. When I would try to encourage companies to export many of them were reluctant to do so because they didn't understand how to do business overseas, plus they felt that the US market was so vast that they didn't need to sell overseas. In most of the rest of the world, especially Europe, the countries are smaller and so they had to trade with each other out of necessity. People trade with other countries as a routine event. I think that some of this applies to the sale of photographic gear and, I suspect, a whole range of individually owned goods. Most US sellers are simply not used to shipping to another country and don't want to get involved in filling out various forms and being worried about not being able to track the shipment. The market for used photo gear is very large in the US, and so one can almost always sell one's items "at home" without having the perceived additional "risks" of shipping overseas.

Due to my background, plus having been born in another country myself, I am less hesitant to ship out of the country than many others might be.

Anyway, this is just my theory and I have no real data to back it up.

Having bought a high value item from the US the biggest problem was the bank transfer, UK to the US arm of my own Bank as easy but then the internal US system is so slow. We found the same when dealing with a US company we imorted from, and Canada's not a lot better. My experience in Europe and Turkey is transfers take a few minutes not many days.

My only bad postal experience from the US was with USPS an iten was stolen at Ohare airport, that's where the tracking ceased and is notorious for mail theft.

UPS tracking is excellent and like others I'd recommend usung them or one of the other International competitors.

Ian

davela · Nov 2, 2011

I ship overseas frequently, it's no big deal. If the item is over about $75 in value I insist on USPS Priority Post International or Express International- no exceptions. I also insure to full value, since the base insurance of Priority International usually only includes insurance to about $70 USD. If the item is really valuable (say >$300), I require Express International, which includes $100 of insurance (and one can purchase extra as needed) and tracked to the door, and the most reliable service. These two services if used correctly with extra insurance will protect the seller. If the buyer does not want to pay the cost of shipping, packing material, AND insurance, then too bad for them! Importing cameras and lenses is a luxury activity and I have no intention of subsidizing it or taking a risk.

Also, I never, ever falsify shipping or insurance documents. If a buyer insists on that I inform them the deal off - I have better things to worry about in life. Not only is it immoral and illegal, but USPS will not allow one to insure above the declared value, so this puts the shipper at considerable risk. With PayPal (and worse, eBay) the seller is on the hook for a chargeback if the item is lost or there is fraud - why accept that!

None of the commercial carriers (UPS, FedEx, etc.) are viable for small shippers - extremely expensive and in fact, frankly, a rip-off (certainly at least in the case of UPS). FedEx has abused my credit card on one occasion as well - I avoid these guys like the plague.

Finally, for anything very heavy or fragile, or very expensive (say over $1000 USD), I usually will not ship abroad. It is too expensive for all concerned and too great a risk to accept.

Follow the above guidelines and you will be OK!

pbryld · Nov 2, 2011

davela said:
Finally, for anything very heavy or fragile, or very expensive (say over $1000 USD), I usually will not ship abroad. It is too expensive for all concerned and too great a risk to accept.

This does not make much sense. If the buyer pays shipping, why be concerned with weight or value?

Eric Rose · Nov 2, 2011

I had a friend who did their Phd thesis on US banking and their inability to deal with international cheques etc. It also delved into America's inability to fathom a world outside of their borders. Mind you this was in the 90's but I'm sure things haven't changed much. I've done business all over the world and have only had problems with American banks. They make it very hard for their clients to accept payment from outside the US unless it was via credit card. Maybe things are better now.

Vaughn · Nov 2, 2011

Joooorsh said:
Maybe just get paypal instead - its free and ibstills a lot more buyer confidence than a cheque.

Your typo reads to me: "its free and its bullshit". As in a cartoon caption I saw on Facebook referring to Facebook -- "If it is free, then you are not the customer, but the product being sold."

I am sorry if anyone is offended that I do not sell items outside of the USA. And I am just slightly offended by people who demand or expect me to sell to them.

Vaughn

davela · Nov 2, 2011

"Finally, for anything very heavy or fragile, or very expensive (say over $1000 USD), I usually will not ship abroad. It is too expensive for all concerned and too great a risk to accept."

"This does not make much sense. If the buyer pays shipping, why be concerned with weight or value?"...

Yes it does make sense and I'll tell you why. The first reason has to do with PayPal charge backs. If one funds a PayPal payment using a credit card, then the buyer has the right to reverse the payment via a credit card chargeback. This can be for almost any reason, and both PayPal and the bank usually side with the buyer, even if the buyer is committing fraud. These fraudulent transactions are almost always by buyers overseas AND they are most interested in high value items - the fraud starts at about the $500 and up level - the criminals don't bother with small money.

Another reason has to do with shipping cost. Heavy items (say over 5 or 6 pounds) become quite expensive to ship overseas and they are often fragile as well. Heavy, bulky, and expensive shipments are often inspected by customs officers in the receiving country and often improperly repacked by them, leading to shipping damage or even loss. I am speaking from experience here. Very high shipping costs become a sticking point in a deal quite often and lead to buyer/seller friction.

Finally, buyers of expensive items are usually much pickier and often tend to want returns on such items if they do not meet their high standards (understandable). This can lead to really excessive cost, risk, and hassle if the shipment needs to be reversed, as well as sometimes disputes as to who should pay for the shipping costs.

These problems, to me at least, lead me to avoid international sales on >$1000 items, particularly ones that are bulky, heavy, and fragile - it's not worth the grief. Perhaps others can tolerate such risk better than me.

For Sale Comment about shipping from USA to other countries

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