Combined film and digital camera

cliveh · Aug 1, 2013

Just out of interest, does anyone think there would there be a market for a camera that was a digital and film combined? One where you could record in digital and if you thought the shot was worthy, you could make a second shot on film. Such a camera would help the longevity of film.

David A. Goldfarb · Aug 1, 2013

There are already medium format cameras with digital and film backs of the same format. The digital backs are costly, but if someone needs that feature and can afford it, it's there.

cliveh · Aug 1, 2013

David A. Goldfarb said:
There are already medium format cameras with digital and film backs of the same format. The digital backs are costly, but if someone needs that feature and can afford it, it's there.

I know, but I'm talking about both integrated in the same camera.

AgX · Aug 1, 2013

There was a hybrid camera:

Polaroid i-Zone Digital Combo

Prest_400 · Aug 1, 2013

I think than a TLR or RF camera could home a sensor somewhere.
Olympus did release a camera with two sensors, one for the EVF and another for the image. Put the former into a RF or TLR system et voilà. Not altering the RF or TLR by using one of those pellicle mirrors or beamsplitters.

wblynch · Aug 1, 2013

I have often thought of this same concept.

Make a TLR with the top half and the 'viewfinder' as electronic and the bottom half for film. The waist level viewfinder would double as the electronic review screen.

Have a two-stage shutter button that lets you choose one or the other or both. It would be easy to build in a double-exposure warning/prevention for the film stage.

Construction should be simple using a fixed focal length. They would just have to work out the focusing linkage between the two stages.

Leave auto focus out of it and keep it very, very simple.

Vonder · Aug 1, 2013

Kodak had an "Advantix Preview" that did this. Didn't store the image digitally, but could have.

cliveh · Aug 1, 2013

Such a camera would allow you to switch from virtual/cloud to physical capture, thus enhancing your best pictures.

eddie · Aug 1, 2013

No, but if Apple were to make an iphone with a 6x9 back...

Seriously, I don't see much of a market for it. The vast majority of people shoot digital, and would have no interest in using film. "Worthy" film shots mean nothing to them, as they're already convinced digital is superior.

wildbill · Aug 1, 2013

eddie said:
No, but if Apple were to make an iphone with a 6x9 back...

Seriously, I don't see much of a market for it. The vast majority of people shoot digital, and would have no interest in using film. "Worthy" film shots mean nothing to them, as they're already convinced digital is superior.

tell em eddie!

zsas · Aug 1, 2013

Kodak made such a thing....

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00004XP73

DanielStone · Aug 2, 2013

Get a Hasselblad and switch backs.

Easy peasy!

A used CFV-II 39mp back will run you $7-10k, depending on seller/condition/market, etc... Just carry it and use like a standard A12/A24 back. Just no darkslide

-Dan

thegman · Aug 2, 2013

It would be curious, but probably severely hindered. Either you have small enough film to make the sensor cheap, or put in a big sensor at great cost to match a larger film area.

You could have two lenses attempting to recreate the field of view, from say, a small sensor to a 6x9 film or whatever, but that seems like a very convoluted way to make a product with limited appeal.

For me, digital and film have their benefits, but building digital into a film camera seems to limit the film camera with digital's problems such as a camera with large digital sensor is expensive, camera with large film area is not. Digital needs batteries, film does not.

I would rather see film and film cameras be marketed and succeed on their own merits. Film cameras have profound technical advantages over digital, not just the other way round, we should be shouting about that, really.

StoneNYC · Aug 2, 2013

cliveh said:
Just out of interest, does anyone think there would there be a market for a camera that was a digital and film combined? One where you could record in digital and if you thought the shot was worthy, you could make a second shot on film. Such a camera would help the longevity of film.

Movie cameras do this, they have a mirror shutter that rotates and has a live feed to monitors so the director can see what is being filmed even though they are using film in the camera.

So there is a market just not for stills.

Also the comments about film and digit backs are silly, he's talking about the same shot, in the same moment, capturing it both ways simultaneously.

Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

selmslie · Aug 2, 2013

StoneNYC said:
...
Also the comments about film and digit backs are silly, he's talking about the same shot, in the same moment, capturing it both ways simultaneously. ...

No, cliveh clearly stated "you could make a second shot on film". The Hasselblad almost meets this requirement except that the digital back is not full frame (6x4.5), so the second shot would be cropped.

The point would be to get a high quality film image, which calls for a high quality system like the Hasselblad. On the bright side, it would probably be less expensive than to build a camera from scratch, especially in any format other than 6x6.

I cant imagine more than a handful of buyers.

Steve Smith · Aug 2, 2013

wblynch said:
They would just have to work out the focusing linkage between the two stages.

For TLRs, they worked that out years ago.

Steve.

wblynch · Aug 2, 2013

Steve Smith said:
For TLRs, they worked that out years ago.

Steve.

Certainly when the film and the viewing screen are the same size and distance from the lens and the viewing and taking lens are the same focal length it is quite easy.

But in my example the film would be 6cmx6cm but the sensor would probably be 2.5cmx2.5cm, requiring two different focal lengths and a progressive linkage to keep the focusing synchronous. But that would be the only 'hard' part.

The upper chamber, with its smaller sensor closer to the lens, would have plenty of room for batteries and electronics.

It would be possible to take a single simultaneous shot on both media.

jspillane · Aug 2, 2013

The R&D costs to get something like this in a usable state would be enormous, and I can't see there being much consumer or professional demand. While a nice concept, it seems pretty farfetched to make it to production. Also, it would pretty much have to be a fix-focal length camera without interchangeable lenses... or it could take Mamiya TLR lenses and suddenly drive the market up!

Seriously, though, I think it is easy enough just to carry a small digital camera for tests and sketches alongside an analog camera. It's what I do, and it ads very little weight or difficulty along with an awful lot of functionality. Still trying to find a good digital camera with a light meter accurate for film exposure, though... It seems like it would be easy, but they all seem slightly off, so I still carry an analog meter (or compensate in my head, when needed).

MaximusM3 · Aug 2, 2013

The market for something like that is virtually non-existent. That's the reality of it.

cliveh · Aug 2, 2013

I was thinking of something like a 6 X 6 folder, with perhaps the sensor on a foldaway screen in front of the film (automatic focus adjustment when switching to film mode) and one you could programme for the type of film/look you had in the camera like fujichrome or Tri-X. All shots taken in digital mode assessed on the back of the camera and then if you really like what you get you take one on film (doesnt help with decisive moments if not repeatable), but would ensure a great set of film images and all your best shots with physical integrity.

zsas · Aug 2, 2013

MaximusM3 said:
The market for something like that is virtually non-existent. That's the reality of it.

zsas said:
Kodak made such a thing....

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00004XP73

C'mon Max, there is such'a product, heck it's even ranked

Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #24,022 in Camera & Photo

Someone tweet or put the above link on FB, this camera will be #1 in a fortnight or less!

Mr Bill · Aug 2, 2013

There used to be thousands and thousands of such hybrid cameras used in in chain studios, both deparment store and school photos, at least in the U.S. and Canada.

They were essentially a stop gap measure before digital had enough quality to stand on its own. When this gear was changed over to digital only, virtually no one was interested in the hybrid gear which was mostly scrapped. Of course, these were big cameras, needing heavy-duty camera stands, not like you are probably thinking of. But still, there was no demand. One of the long-time manufacturers of long-roll portrait cameras (among numerous other products), PhotoControl Corp., went out of business about this time.

So no, I don't think there would be much interest today. If you wanted to rig something yourself, you could probably mount a tiny digital camera in the flash shoe of a standard film camera.

wblynch · Aug 2, 2013

Mr Bill said:
If you wanted to rig something yourself, you could probably mount a tiny digital camera in the flash shoe of a standard film camera.

That's a better idea than you think!

At least the exposure could be synchronized. And the accessory camera could capture geo-location data and other notes.

DREW WILEY · Aug 2, 2013

Kinda like hitching a pig and a mule together when you want to plow the field...

Sirius Glass · Aug 2, 2013

Combined film and digital camera

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