"COMANDANTE" - First Successful Cyanotype

ChristopherCoy · May 22, 2020

Today I decided to be somewhat careless in my approach. I realized that if I were going to learn anything, I would have to loosen the reins a little, and throw a bit of caution to the wind. I couldn't worry about how much each sheet of paper was, or how much chemical I was using, or how to analyze a negative to the hilt.

So that's what I did. I sat down and chose a digital photo I had taken in Cancun Mexico in February. I inverted the curves in LR, and adjusted what I thought needed to be brighter, darker, where my blacks needed to be, and where the whites should fall. I didn't use a chartthrob, I didn't test exposure times - I just did it.

This took three attempts. The first try I saturated the paper with TOO much coating, although it did produce a nice, aged effect. The second try was TOO long of an exposure and my highlights went too muddy. But the third time I'm going to call a success.

It's still not where I want it to be, still a little too much highlights, I got some kind of drips on the trees in the upper right, and I needed about 30 seconds more exposure I think, but I'm checking this one off as successful.

(and I'm not doing another one until I get a UV box. The sun and clouds are too unpredictable.)

img20200522_17061138 by Christopher Coy, on Flickr

glbeas · May 22, 2020

I like it, like your attitude too! I just got some good info from member Frank Gorga about uv strips for my exposure unit. Might be of help.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071NT6189

ChristopherCoy · May 22, 2020

glbeas said:
I like it, like your attitude too! I just got some good info from member Frank Gorga about uv strips for my exposure unit. Might be of help.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071NT6189

I ordere these today. I figured 33ft was enough to fill a 16x20” box with enough UV to start a fire.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/293547239445

Donald Qualls · May 22, 2020

I'm interested in how well this works. I've made cyano and salted paper prints under a single BLB (black light/blue) CFL spiral bulb in a reflector clamp socket, and with the light a foot or so from the printing frame, was able to get good exposures in twenty minutes or so -- but was only printing up to 4x5 negatives. For larger prints, I'm certain more light would be needed.

BrianShaw · May 22, 2020

That worked! Nice!!

glbeas · May 22, 2020

ChristopherCoy said:
I ordere these today. I figured 33ft was enough to fill a 16x20” box with enough UV to start a fire.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/293547239445

Pretty interesting, be sure to let us know how it works.

ChristopherCoy · May 22, 2020

BrianShaw said:
That worked! Nice!!

I thought so. I had a very satisfied feeling when it was dry.

Patrick Robert James · May 22, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
I'm interested in how well this works. I've made cyano and salted paper prints under a single BLB (black light/blue) CFL spiral bulb in a reflector clamp socket, and with the light a foot or so from the printing frame, was able to get good exposures in twenty minutes or so -- but was only printing up to 4x5 negatives. For larger prints, I'm certain more light would be needed.

Donald, I built a uv lightbox a year ago and I get exposure times for cyanotypes with Canon Pro 10 pigment negatives of between 1:30 and 3:00. The times would be longer if you are using bombproof alternative process negs. I don't think I've tried a regular neg yet. I stacked the strips butting each other. I think they were three to an inch, using these- https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D7RKJYS/ I needed three strips IIRC to make a light size of somewhere around 16x23". I wanted to cover 13x19". I think one would be good enough for 8x10. They come with a plug too, but I used a power brick. And computer fans, which probably wasn't necessary, but better safe than sorry...

fgorga · May 22, 2020

glbeas said:
I like it, like your attitude too! I just got some good info from member Frank Gorga about uv strips for my exposure unit. Might be of help.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071NT6189

As I told Gary in another thread, four of the above LED strips spaced 4" apart in a box with the inside dimensions of 20x28x8 inches gives exposures for cyanotypes of 5-8 minutes depending on the negative.

The largest negative I have printed with the LEDs, to date, is 8x10 inches and I saw no hint of uneven exposure.

The LEDs run cool (compared to fluorescent tubes) and I would not hesitate to add another set of four strips if I thought it was needed.

Horatio · May 22, 2020

ChristopherCoy said:
Today I decided to be somewhat careless in my approach. I realized that if I were going to learn anything, I would have to loosen the reins a little, and throw a bit of caution to the wind. I couldn't worry about how much each sheet of paper was, or how much chemical I was using, or how to analyze a negative to the hilt.

So that's what I did. I sat down and chose a digital photo I had taken in Cancun Mexico in February. I inverted the curves in LR, and adjusted what I thought needed to be brighter, darker, where my blacks needed to be, and where the whites should fall. I didn't use a chartthrob, I didn't test exposure times - I just did it.

This took three attempts. The first try I saturated the paper with TOO much coating, although it did produce a nice, aged effect. The second try was TOO long of an exposure and my highlights went too muddy. But the third time I'm going to call a success.

It's still not where I want it to be, still a little too much highlights, I got some kind of drips on the trees in the upper right, and I needed about 30 seconds more exposure I think, but I'm checking this one off as successful.

(and I'm not doing another one until I get a UV box. The sun and clouds are too unpredictable.)

I like it! So, you used a paper negative?

ChristopherCoy · May 22, 2020

Horatio said:
I like it! So, you used a paper negative?

No. I printed an 8x10 negative from a digital file.

Horatio · May 22, 2020

ChristopherCoy said:
No. I printed an 8x10 negative from a digital file.

Semantics. If you printed the negative on paper, it’s a paper negative. The alternative is to print on transparency sheets.

ChristopherCoy · May 22, 2020

Horatio said:
Semantics. If you printed the negative on paper, it’s a paper negative. The alternative is to print on transparency sheets.

thats what I did. Pictorio transparency film.

BrianShaw · May 22, 2020

How are you sizing the paper? I always had best success with a hot press paper, spray starch size, and foam brush applicator. It’s been years since my last cyanotype and your making me want to get back to it again.

Ko.Fe. · May 22, 2020

Looks very classic!

Horatio · May 23, 2020

ChristopherCoy said:
thats what I did. Pictorio transparency film.

Thanks for clarifying.

ChristopherCoy · May 23, 2020

BrianShaw said:
How are you sizing the paper? I always had best success with a hot press paper, spray starch size, and foam brush applicator. It’s been years since my last cyanotype and your making me want to get back to it again.

I don’t understand that question. I’m using Bergger COT320 8x10, with an 8x10 printed negative on 8.5x11 Pictorio Transoarency film.

fgorga · May 23, 2020

ChristopherCoy said:
I don’t understand that question. I’m using Bergger COT320 8x10, with an 8x10 printed negative on 8.5x11 Pictorio Transoarency film.

Some papers need to be sized, i.e treated to control the absorption of liquid, before they can be used for cyanotypes or other alternative printing processes.

Choosing a paper such as the Bergger COT which is designed for alt process means that the paper is already appropriately sized for the application.

In my experience, most watercolor papers can be used without further sizing but that some printmaking papers need sizing to be used successfully with alt processes. One material that folks use for sizing, is spray starch meant for ironing clothing. More traditionally, gelatin is used as the size.

ChristopherCoy · May 23, 2020

Ah. I’ve never heard the time “sized” before.

MattKing · May 23, 2020

As you dive deeper into this Chris, you will discover that people can spend hours discussing all the vagaries of various papers and processes and how they interact.
Hours and hours !

removed account4 · May 23, 2020

MattKing said:
Hours and hours !

and hours and hours and ....

ChristopherCoy · May 23, 2020

MattKing said:
As you dive deeper into this Chris, you will discover that people can spend hours discussing all the vagaries of various papers and processes and how they interact.
Hours and hours !

I definitely do NOT like using polysorbate 20. Even a drop or two causes the paper to become a sponge.

fgorga · May 23, 2020

ChristopherCoy said:
I definitely do NOT like using polysorbate 20. Even a drop or two causes the paper to become a sponge.

A surfactant like Tween 20 is not really necessary with a paper such as the Bergger COT you are using. This paper is designed for hand coating and should be fine without the need for surfactant. Use the Tween 20 only if you have trouble coating a paper without it.

You say that you are using a drop or two... of what? I hope not the pure Tween 20!

I make a 10% (v/v) solution (i.e 10 mL of Tween + 90 mL water) and use 1 drop of this solution per mL of coating solution, only when I have had difficulty coating a paper. I rarely need more than that.

fgorga · May 23, 2020

jnantz said:
and hours and hours and ....

Yup... tis all part of the fun!

But eventually you'll want to buckle down to the hard part... making art!

My best advice is to have fun exploring the choices, but to have one or two "standard" papers for routine use. I usually have two "go to" papers... one very smooth and one with a bit of texture. These two papers change on occasion as I discover new papers, but I always have two for routine use.

Vaughn · May 25, 2020

ChristopherCoy said:
Ah. I’ve never heard the time “sized” before.

The type (externally and/or internally sized) and make-up of sizing can interact with the process chemicals -- some sizing is alkaline, which can fight iron processes. I have soaked paper in solutions (1 to 3%) of citric acid or oxalic acid to improve images (for pt/pd printing)...but as someone mentioned COT320 is designed to avoid needing this.

I suggest getting the process down with one paper first -- one does not need the extra variables of different papers at this time! Tho you picked a pricey one!

"COMANDANTE" - First Successful Cyanotype

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