Colour sep: who does it?

keithwms · Oct 5, 2009

I have been thinking about colour separation photography for various reasons, and I'd first like to find out who does what today.

I am aware of the historical developments from J.C. Maxwell on, but I am mostly interested in who is doing analogue colour sep today.

If you have any links to current artists using colour sep .... from capture through the print... I am all ears! (or eyes...) I am somewhat less interested in colour capture followed by separating the image into colour components- I am more interested in shooting panchromatic b&w film and building a colour image from that, in totally analogue fashion. Who does it?

Thanks in advance.

sanking · Oct 5, 2009

keithwms said:
I have been thinking about colour separation photography for various reasons, and I'd first like to find out who does what today.

I am aware of the historical developments from J.C. Maxwell on, but I am mostly interested in who is doing analogue colour sep today.

If you have any links to current artists using colour sep .... from capture through the print... I am all ears! (or eyes...) I am somewhat less interested in colour capture followed by separating the image into colour components- I am more interested in shooting panchromatic b&w film and building a colour image from that, in totally analogue fashion. Who does it?

Thanks in advance.

There is long running thread on the subject at the LF forum. See http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=48583

Unfortunately most of the work that is being done in this area today takes advantage of digital methods of correcting and balancing the color separation sets. It is possible that a few of the persons working with dye transfer may be using purely analog methods. There is a discussion group on this run by Jim Browning on Yahoo. Dead Link Removed

Sandy King

Photo Engineer · Oct 5, 2009

Jim Browning is doing it with an old color separation camera as are quite a few in the Dye Transfer SIG on Yahoo. You may want to go to Jim's web site or the SIG to talk to people with this special interest.

PE

Photo Engineer · Oct 5, 2009

You might try making up solutions that act as color developers, and then reversal process the separations and sandwich them together. This makes a pseudo Kodachrome slide. It can be done easily once you have the 3 color developers. There is a kit out there for doing this.

PE

mattmoy_2000 · Oct 5, 2009

Trichrome

I've made trichromes! Admittedly, I made them by scanning the three negatives and using GIMP to colour them, but the results were pretty interesting. There's a group on Flickr called "Trichromie" too.
If you're interested, I've got one online here.
I've got another roll of them at home undeveloped, so far. I used HP5+ and developed, IIRC, in D76.

Mark Antony · Oct 5, 2009

I do it, but I'm afraid I scan-I'm sure I posted this before, but in case you've not seen it:
how to make trichromes
and

Mark

keithwms · Oct 5, 2009

Thanks Sandy, I didn't think to check lfpi.

Ron, that is an interesting thought.

Regarding alignment, I am thinking of placing corner crosshairs in the original image and doing the alignment at the enlarger.

Thanks for the other comments as well. Again, I am especially interested in the purely analogue process.... but Mark I do remember that result, nicely done!

Photo Engineer · Oct 5, 2009

Keith;

There are several methods of alignment. Kodak even made a register punch for this type of work. I have used a 3 hole paper punch to punch negatives and align them.

PE

keithwms · Oct 5, 2009

Sounds good Ron. I was thinking of using epoxy at the edges....

gordrob · Oct 5, 2009

You can also check out http://ctein.com/ - go to the Welcome tab and the that will take to you to information about the dye transfer process and his library of dye transfer prints.
Gord

AgX · Oct 5, 2009

Keith,

What kind of exposure are you thinking of? Seqential or Parallel?

Thought of the historic Miethe camera? You could do something similar by synchronizing an ordinary motordrive with some custom filter wheel.

Photo Engineer · Oct 5, 2009

Greg;

If you are determined to take sequential separation negatives, registration becomes a real pain, but there is a way. You can get creative and cut the 3 negatives out, then register them with a rivet so that they swivel or rotate around the rivet. Then, by using a cardboard carrier, you can print them. But, they still may be out of alignment due to some of the movement.

All I can suggest is experiment.

PE

gordrob · Oct 5, 2009

Another way of registering your negatives is to mount the original in a larger piece of film of the same thickness. This will then allow you to use a larger punch and registration pins for the project. You will no doubt want to mount some form of a step wedge into the process to allow you to control exposure and processing of the separations. By mounting your original into a larger piece of film you can also add a small step wedge along side of the original. If you use just the 35mm original you could have the step wedge showing through the sprocket holes of the transparency.
Gord

Ektagraphic · Oct 5, 2009

I may be way off with this and I don't mean to hijack this thread but would it be possible to print color from black and white buy using color paper and placing a couple of different filters in front of the film (cyan yellow etc.) and making a couple of exposures on the paper?

keithwms · Oct 5, 2009

AgX said:
Keith,

What kind of exposure are you thinking of? Seqential or Parallel?

Thought of the historic Miethe camera? You could do something similar by synchronizing an ordinary motordrive with some custom filter wheel.

AgX, I was thinking of sequential. Parallel will require some engineering! And it'd be especially hard considering the close-focus subjects I have in mind.

I am not sure whether I will be doing this in the near term, I am just wondering what the modern (but still analogue) options are and how close they are to the historical processes.

~~~

Greg I was guessing one could just use a filter or a piece of c41-processed but unexposed print film to get the mask if necessary; maybe I am wrong. Thanks for raising the issue for discussion....

Thanks everyone for the continued flow of ideas and experience(s). I appreciate it!

Photo Engineer · Oct 5, 2009

Greg Davis said:
Ron, I have one more question. Assuming I get my registration issue solved and try an additive print, will I a color issue from not having the orange mask associated with color negative film? Will I need some sort of filtration for this? I will be using a color enlarger, but with gel filters for the additive exposures.

Greg;

The orange mask is intended to correct for impurity in the negative dyes. Since there are no dyes involved, and if you use narrow printing and exposing filters, there will be no problem. In fact, your colors in a traditional color print will be better than a white light print from a negative.

Use WR 98/99/70 for your combo.

PE

keithwms · Oct 5, 2009

Greg I'll be in Lexington in a few weeks; perhaps we could meet up and chat it out.

keithwms · Oct 5, 2009

Ah okay. Well I will be there for the Christmas holidays for sure. Most of my family lives in Lexington, Versailles, and L'ville.

Ektagraphic · Oct 5, 2009

why couldn't you use the filters when you are printing the neg instead of when you are actually taking the photograph?

keithwms · Oct 5, 2009

Ektagraphic said:
why couldn't you use the filters when you are printing the neg instead of when you are actually taking the photograph?

Because I'd want to take full advantage of the tonality of b&w film and develop the negs using the usual b&w process.

Of course, I know that I can shoot colour print or slide film, but that's not the point.

Now, preparing colour sep negs for RA4 sounds interesting to me... but actually I was thinking about the earlier processes using gums.

Photo Engineer · Oct 5, 2009

Ektagraphic said:
why couldn't you use the filters when you are printing the neg instead of when you are actually taking the photograph?

You can, but you need to start with a color negative, and the desire is to use a trio of B&W negs.

PE

Ektagraphic · Oct 5, 2009

So it is not possible to take a black and white negative, place it in the enlarger, place a piece of paper, expose the paper with one color filter and repeat this process rexposing the paper with however many filters are needed?

Photo Engineer · Oct 5, 2009

Ektagraphic said:
So it is not possible to take a black and white negative, place it in the enlarger, place a piece of paper, expose the paper with one color filter and repeat this process rexposing the paper with however many filters are needed?

Of course it is, but you need 3 color negatives as stated above!

PE

keithwms · Oct 5, 2009

Photo Engineer said:
Of course it is, but you need 3 color negatives as stated above!

PE

...or more than three, though I guess 3 is the bare minimum to obtain a true white...

Which makes me wonder whether r,g and b sep negatives really are the optimal three.

Photo Engineer · Oct 5, 2009

Actually, you can get a true white with 2, but you need at least 3 to get a true black! That is, unless you mess with the dyes themselves. You can do this with the pseudo Kodachrome that I described above. But then you are back to the old 2 dye color processes with bad greens or blues and bad flesh tones.

PE

Colour sep: who does it?

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency