colour problem developing with kodak flexicolor

leticiaaie · Jun 13, 2016

I've experienced this same problem twice, developing 120 kodak portra (expired 4 years ago, but kept in the fridge) in kodak flexicolor chemicals (same brand but different mixes, the first was in a lesson, mixed by the teacher, the second was at my lab, I had mixed it the day before).
The problem is color: cyan in the highlights and red in the shadows. Besides, in the second opportunity the complete film turned green (instead of caramel/orange).

process was the following:
temperature of all chemicals was 38º
prewash: 3 minutes (changed water in tank 5 times)
developer: 3.15 min (Initial agitation for 30 seconds, followed by 2 seconds of agitation every 15 seconds.)
wash
bleach: 6:30 min (Initial agitation for 30 seconds, followed by 5 seconds of agitation every 30 seconds.)
wash: 3 min
fixer: 6:30 min (Initial agitation for 30 seconds, followed by 5 seconds of agitation every 30 seconds.)
wash: 3 min
final rinse (stabilizer): 1:30 min (Initial agitation for 30 seconds)

these are some examples of the scanned negatives, and a picture for you to see how green the film turned out.

I would love to hear some opinions and advice since the person who taught me the process does not know how to help me and I definitely don't want to waste chemicals nor film!

pentaxuser · Jun 13, 2016

Provided your chemicals are fresh and it looks as if they are from what you say, then I can see nothing wrong with your process. The only "wrong" thing I can see is the out of date film which may or may not be the problem. Were there other students developing film in the class as well? If so did they use the same chemicals and did they have the same problems. If they didn't then it seems almost certain that it was your out of date film

pentaxuser

leticiaaie · Jun 13, 2016

pentaxuser said:
Provided your chemicals are fresh and it looks as if they are from what you say, then I can see nothing wrong with your process. The only "wrong" thing I can see is the out of date film which may or may not be the problem. Were there other students developing film in the class as well? If so did they use the same chemicals and did they have the same problems. If they didn't then it seems almost certain that it was your out of date film

pentaxuser

Thank you for answering pentaxuser! Chemicals were fresh when I mixed them (cannot prove they were fresh in the class). And no, there weren't other students in the class. I'll try developing in the same conditions but with no expired film, but I still wonder if it is something that I am doing wrong, since I have sent two rolls of this same expired film to the photolab and they developed ok!

Rudeofus · Jun 13, 2016

Are you 100% sure that the scanning process didn't mess up colors? Unless you do test strips and color charts plus density measurements, there is no way you can tell from scanned images whether negative colors are off ...

leticiaaie · Jun 13, 2016

Rudeofus said:
Are you 100% sure that the scanning process didn't mess up colors? Unless you do test strips and color charts plus density measurements, there is no way you can tell from scanned images whether negative colors are off ...

Hi rudeofus, I am quite sure it's not a scanning issue since the film already looks wrong (see third picture).
I don't have access to a color enlarger, I guess I would need one of them to do those test strips you mention, wright?

OptiKen · Jun 13, 2016

I recently shot some expired Portra and got very similar results. In fact, it was after developing two rolls like that, that I decided on my signature for APUG. I was thinking the white balance was off (IE: Tungsten film in Daylight or vice versa). I'll go out and test a roll with filters before I shoot another one of things I want to keep.

Rudeofus · Jun 13, 2016

leticiaaie said:
Hi rudeofus, I am quite sure it's not a scanning issue since the film already looks wrong (see third picture).
I don't have access to a color enlarger, I guess I would need one of them to do those test strips you mention, wright?

If the space between frames is indeed green as shown, then yes, something is off. Somehow the red sensitive layer got fogged, likely by old age. You should be able to correct quite a bit of fog when you post process the scans. If you have many of these old rolls, you could try adding some extra Potassium Bromide to your color developer, a starting amount of 0.5 g/l may work.

Photo Engineer · Jun 13, 2016

The film looks like it has been uniformly fogged by red safelight.

PE

leticiaaie · Jun 14, 2016

Thanks to all of you for your answers. I have recently bought potassium bromide to prepared caffenol-c-h, so I'll give it a try.

mnemosyne · Jun 15, 2016

leticiaaie said:
Thanks to all of you for your answers. I have recently bought potassium bromide to prepared caffenol-c-h, so I'll give it a try.

Instead of trying to cure the symptoms, you should rather figure out a way to eradicate the cause of this problem, i.e. the (safe) light fogging in your darkroom.

leticiaaie · Jun 15, 2016

mnemosyne said:
Instead of trying to cure the symptoms, you should rather figure out a way to eradicate the cause of this problem, i.e. the (safe) light fogging in your darkroom.

Hi mnemosyne! I know, that's what I am trying to figure out. I am sure it's not fogging (I put the roll into the tank inside a safe bag, and my tank has no light leaks).
It the rangefinder forum, almost everyone who answered my post mention the prewash and washes between steps like color altering factors. I guess I'll have to write down all the different suggestions and choose one as to start, and if it doesn't work, the following, and so on. I haven't received any answer saying "the green color on the film is due to..." or "the cyan cast is because of..." so far. But many many advices regarding washing issues.

pentaxuser · Jun 15, 2016

I do not want to put you off listing all the suggestions you have received elsewhere about pre-washes, washes etc and then trying them out but frankly I think this is a waste of time and dispiriting as well unless it works which seems unlikely.

Your process looks fine provided all the temps were as they should be and none of the steps were missed out.

I'd get a brand new film, expose it correctly then mix the chemicals yourself and process it. What checks were carried out by the teacher who doesn't seem to know very much to ensure that the chemicals were fresh? I go back to the point about what happened when others in the class use exactly the same chemicals. I take it you can be sure that the "class" chemicals are fresh and were correctly mixed.To be doubly safe I'd use a changing bag in as near total darkness as you can find and check that there are no leaks in your tank, although this sounds an unlikely cause.

pentaxuser

Photo Engineer · Jun 15, 2016

Contamination of developer with bleach or fix could also cause this fog.

However, the process as outlined is just fine. The pre-rinse and the other items mentioned are not the cause of this overall color unless there is a contaminant in the water.

PE

leticiaaie · Jun 16, 2016

pentaxuser said:
I do not want to put you off listing all the suggestions you have received elsewhere about pre-washes, washes etc and then trying them out but frankly I think this is a waste of time and dispiriting as well unless it works which seems unlikely.

Your process looks fine provided all the temps were as they should be and none of the steps were missed out.

I'd get a brand new film, expose it correctly then mix the chemicals yourself and process it. What checks were carried out by the teacher who doesn't seem to know very much to ensure that the chemicals were fresh? I go back to the point about what happened when others in the class use exactly the same chemicals. I take it you can be sure that the "class" chemicals are fresh and were correctly mixed.To be doubly safe I'd use a changing bag in as near total darkness as you can find and check that there are no leaks in your tank, although this sounds an unlikely cause.

pentaxuser

Thanks pentaxuser, as I said before there were not other students in the class, I took a private lesson in Buenos Aires with a guy who I will not waste time describing here... hopefully you will guess why I could not tell how fresh were the chemicals. I used a changing bag and prepared brand new fresh chemicals myself the second time I did it! So, no: light leaking and expired chemicals are not in the problems list. Also, I insist: this very same expired film was developed in a professional photo lab in Buenos Aires and turned ok. Thanks again!

pentaxuser · Jun 16, 2016

So when things went wrong in B.A. you do not know how fresh the chemicals were so they may or may not have been the problem You now know that light leaks were not the problem and you can eliminate expired chemicals as you both mixed and developed with fresh chemicals on another occasion but the problem was replicated?. The only difference seems to be that you developed from the same batch of expired film? Have I got this correct?

The problem here is that you seem to have eliminated all possible causes except the one expired film you developed as it even seems that similarly expired film developed in a commercial lab was OK

I am at a loss to know where to direct you for the cause and can only repeat that you try again with two fresh films. Send one to a commercial lab and develop one yourself to see if there is any difference. If you have the same problem but the commercially developed film is OK then the problem lies in the broadest sense with what you are doing. Unfortunately I cannot be more positive in terms of what has gone wrong

pentaxuser

Photo Engineer · Jun 16, 2016

Unless there is a contaminant in your water supply, or you have somehow contaminated the chemicals or fogged the film, there is no other answer I can give you. I have worked on and coated color negative films and worked on the process development of C41 and know of no other sources for this problem.

PE

leticiaaie · Jun 20, 2016

Hi to everyone following this thread. Once again, thanks for all your helpful answers. I want to tell you all that I developed 35mm film some days ago. I repeated all my steps but did not wash between delevoper and bleach. I like the results best, although I have some inconsistency throughout the roll: some have realistic colors and other photographs' temperature is too warm. I attach two examples of both cases:

bvy · Jun 20, 2016

Are these scans? It's hard make conclusions about color accuracy from scanned frames. Also, if the frames are from the same roll, I can't think of any reason (or way) that some frames would develop with correct color and others not.

Rudeofus · Jun 21, 2016

The "reddish" shot looks quite underexposed, too. Either you see an artifact from the scanner software trying to correct a underexposed negative, or maybe this shot was taken in the evening during sunset ...

leticiaaie · Jun 23, 2016

Great! I hadn't noticed that constant when I examined the developed roll. Most (if not all) of the pictures that turned out with those red and yellow tones are underexposed. I used an old olympus trip, as its selenium exposure meter does not work I got many underexposed photograms. Thanks rudeofus and bvy!

pentaxuser · Jun 23, 2016

Are these new or at least non expired 35mm film unlike the expired 120 film from which you gave us the scans?

It would seem that we may be back to scanner issues again that we seem to meet more frequently in the last 2-3 years.

Before we can even begin to help solve issues we need someway of getting an exact replica of the negatives otherwise we end up offering solutions that lead nowhere or worse, deepening the mystery.

pentaxuser

Photo Engineer · Jun 23, 2016

Well, the negatives above have clearly been chemically or light fogged! There is no question.

PE

pentaxuser · Jun 24, 2016

Photo Engineer said:
Well, the negatives above have clearly been chemically or light fogged! There is no question.

PE

So the second set of 35mm negs are either chemically or light fogged? He either has been very unlucky or needs to ensure that his film is purchased as fresh stock.

Is it as simple as that, I wonder? I do note that he hasn't yet replied to my question so we await the answer as to the status of the film stock

pentaxuser

Photo Engineer · Jun 24, 2016

The only negatives presented are before the positive images above. No determination can be made from the positive images. Raw visuals or scans of the negatives, as is, is the best indicator.

PE

mtjade2007 · Jun 25, 2016

pentaxuser said:
Provided your chemicals are fresh and it looks as if they are from what you say, then I can see nothing wrong with your process. The only "wrong" thing I can see is the out of date film which may or may not be the problem. Were there other students developing film in the class as well? If so did they use the same chemicals and did they have the same problems. If they didn't then it seems almost certain that it was your out of date film

pentaxuser

I have shot and processed a lot of expired films of many different types. It looks to me the OP's problem is not because the film was an expired film. It looks to me more like a processing error. Either it is a result of not sufficient amount of developer used or the processing temperature or time was off. I have shot and processed films expired before 1999. They came out with great images still. But I noticed that the films that old are grainier.

colour problem developing with kodak flexicolor

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