Colour bias in colour contrast filters, colour in general.

Cafe Art

A
Cafe Art

  • 4
  • 2
  • 34
Sciuridae

A
Sciuridae

  • 4
  • 2
  • 91
Takatoriyama

D
Takatoriyama

  • 6
  • 3
  • 115
Tree and reflection

H
Tree and reflection

  • 2
  • 0
  • 96

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
197,632
Messages
2,762,208
Members
99,425
Latest member
dcy
Recent bookmarks
0

eli griggs

Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
3,820
Location
NC
Format
Multi Format
I know many here have knowledge of colour theory, however an old thread on B&W 23 yellow filters popped up this afternoon and I want to give out some basic information on reading colours and their ever present bias.

Most people think of a colour wheel as a six segmented pie, with three Primary colours and three Secondary colours.

That is the most basic education a photographer or artist may have, and it's more detailed than that, as the bias or 'leaning toward' of each colour that determines the actual colours involved.

Think of a 12 segmented pie.

For each of the Primaries, Red, Blue, Yellow, there are two biased positions.

For example, Red is actually two primaries, an Orange-Red and a Violet-Red, the O-R is a warm colour, leaning to the Orange side of the pie scale.

Violet-Red is a cool Red, influenced towards Violet or warm Blue.

Yellow Primaries consist of an warm Orange-Yellow, like the B&W 23 I referenced.

The other primary Yellow is a cool Green-Yellow, again leaning towards the Primary cool blue.

Blue itself both leans towards a warm Violet-Blue, a Red influenced Colour, and, in a cool Green-Blue, moving into the Green of the cool Green.

Those are the Six Primaries of the 12 section pie (Wheel)

Each of the Secondary colours also have a bias, leading off with the Blue-Green, a cool hue, and the warm Yellow-Green, a commonly used filter for smoothing out blemishes on girls/women skin/face.

The Red-Orange is obviously warm and the cool side consist of the Yellow-Orange, Yellow descending into the green bias.

Each of these secondaries can a more neutral tertiary position on a more complicated colour wheel, by mixing a cool biased hue with a warm biased hue, two opposites, like a Orange-Green with a Violet-Blue mix.

Last, the secondary hue, Violet, is made of both Red-Violet, a warm colour and a blue-Violet a cool hue

When reading the old thread on the B&W 23 had some confusion about whether or not it's an Orange or a Yellow and it's effect on b&w photographs.

Marketed as a Yellow by B&W but, perceived as an Orange by many here, it is in fact, a warm Yellow.

Yellow hues run a wide gamet of mostly warm Yellows, and it is easily demonstrated by looking at an artist's colour chart, the Old Holland oil Paints Colour Chart, viewable on line.


Look at the Cadmium Yellows, starting with a Light or Pale Cadmium Yellow, a Cadmium Yellow, (the most commonly used Cadmium Yellow paint) Medium Cadmium Yellow, and a Heavy Cadmium Yellow.

On the other side of the Yellow scale, generally biased towards the cool, is a Citrus Yellow.

When trying to determine a difficult colour bias, hold the filter with a neutral colour, like a plain Black & White Grey, in the back ground under strong daylight.

The filter can also be tested by holding it up to skylight, between 10:00pm to 2:00pm.

The IMPORTAINT thing is to always be aware that colour contrast filters will have bias towards the cool, warm (and a neutral), and that bias will also, almost always, impact your photograph.

I hope this is of some help when it comes to the interpretation of filter colours.
 
Last edited:

ic-racer

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Messages
16,488
Location
USA
Format
Multi Format
I always thought color bias referred to pigments and they way they mix.
 
OP
OP
eli griggs

eli griggs

Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
3,820
Location
NC
Format
Multi Format
I always thought color bias referred to pigments and they way they mix.

Yes and no, though you can not control the bias of a single pigment colour, like a warm Cadmium Red or a Violet-Red, such as Alizarin Red, the "pure", unmixed pigment colour bias is always there and it's from that position, it can be further altered to a warm, cool and neutral, mixed hue.

The 'mechanics' mixing of pigments may require some additional processing, like alcohol used for wetting light, "fluffy" pigments like Alizarin Red or Thalo-Green, the actual mixing of pigments is simply a straight forward blending, grinding and mulling.

Colour contrast filters are also biased, so knowing what your using, a cool Yellow-Green or a warm Medium-Yellow will help you predict the outcome and effects of using one filter instead of the other.

Is this clear or a help?
 

koraks

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
20,983
Location
Europe
Format
Multi Format
I'd like to offer this as an additional resource: https://handprint.com/HP/WCL/wcolor.html
Bruce McEvoy has compiled what must be the most spectacular online/free resource about color theory (from a painter's/graphical artist's perspective). The color wheel with tertiary colors/hues he discusses here: https://handprint.com/HP/WCL/color13.html#tertiary Following this link also provides an essential illustration that makes the first post easier to navigate, in my opinion.
 
OP
OP
eli griggs

eli griggs

Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
3,820
Location
NC
Format
Multi Format
I'd like to offer this as an additional resource: https://handprint.com/HP/WCL/wcolor.html
Bruce McEvoy has compiled what must be the most spectacular online/free resource about color theory (from a painter's/graphical artist's perspective). The color wheel with tertiary colors/hues he discusses here: https://handprint.com/HP/WCL/color13.html#tertiary Following this link also provides an essential illustration that makes the first post easier to navigate, in my opinion.

Thanks for the additional data, it'll help i
n the understanding of tertiary colours and the possible selection of colour filters, etc.
 
Joined
Jan 31, 2020
Messages
1,261
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
I'm a bit too lazy to read the additional source in depthm. Is there a brief explanation as to the focus on discrete points in the continuous colour wheel/the equally continuous electromagnetic spectrum? Are they merely heuristics or physiologically defined (by human colour perception with its three peaks)? Or are they historically a consequence of the availability of certain hues in pigments and dyes?
 
OP
OP
eli griggs

eli griggs

Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
3,820
Location
NC
Format
Multi Format
I'm a bit too lazy to read the additional source in depthm. Is there a brief explanation as to the focus on discrete points in the continuous colour wheel/the equally continuous electromagnetic spectrum? Are they merely heuristics or physiologically defined (by human colour perception with its three peaks)? Or are they historically a consequence of the availability of certain hues in pigments and dyes?

All of the above.

Filters are used, since before the digital age to establish a wide field or the spectrum of electromagnetic wavelengths.

Think on all the different things analog films recorded, like the actual colour spectrum of electromagnetic waves, infrared, x-rays, chemical analysis of reflective Space 🚀 objects, Planets, Nebula, suns, etc.

Filters show the naked eye, stress in metals and plastics manufacturing.

Human Perception is inclusive of Emotions, and the individuals ability to perceive whatever hues they are capable of seeing, just as colour contrast filters are not limited to the basic six or twelve segmented colour wheel, and many people have some degree of colour blindness, which includes confusion in, for example, red-green hues, being unable to see them as two different colours.

The accumulation of pigments and dyes is a pursuit from prehistory to today, with natural occuring materials being used for paints, charcoal, red and yellow others, blue soil, walnuts, dandelions, grasses, insects, snails, bladder contents, etc

As time progressed, newer natural and synthetic pigments populated the range, of what's possible and there have been many new pigments "discovered" and incorporated into glass, paints, eyes, etc.

A number of pigments based on dyes, are made into pigments, by using them to dye colourless, or natural pigment particles, permanently imparting their hue to the pigment being manufactured.

Off hand, pigments, especial the newer permanent and colour fast types are used to decipher when a glass object, like a filter or painting was used, when did that blue becomes available, did Cadmium or Colbalt exist in that hue when this glasso or watercolour or oil painting was created.

Having a general, all around handle on Colours will allow you to control your filter choices better and relive your wallet of spending its contents on filters you do not need.IMO
 

Sirius Glass

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
50,168
Location
Southern California
Format
Multi Format
I know many here have knowledge of colour theory, however an old thread on B&W 23 yellow filters popped up this afternoon and I want to give out some basic information on reading colours and their ever present bias.

Most people think of a colour wheel as a six segmented pie, with three Primary colours and three Secondary colours.

That is the most basic education a photographer or artist may have, and it's more detailed than that, as the bias or 'leaning toward' of each colour that determines the actual colours involved.

Think of a 12 segmented pie.

For each of the Primaries, Red, Blue, Yellow, there are two biased positions.

For example, Red is actually two primaries, an Orange-Red and a Violet-Red, the O-R is a warm colour, leaning to the Orange side of the pie scale.

Violet-Red is a cool Red, influenced towards Violet or warm Blue.

Yellow Primaries consist of an warm Orange-Yellow, like the B&W 23 I referenced.

The other primary Yellow is a cool Green-Yellow, again leaning towards the Primary cool blue.

Blue itself both leans towards a warm Violet-Blue, a Red influenced Colour, and, in a cool Green-Blue, moving into the Green of the cool Green.

Those are the Six Primaries of the 12 section pie (Wheel)

Each of the Secondary colours also have a bias, leading off with the Blue-Green, a cool hue, and the warm Yellow-Green, a commonly used filter for smoothing out blemishes on girls/women skin/face.

The Red-Orange is obviously warm and the cool side consist of the Yellow-Orange, Yellow descending into the green bias.

Each of these secondaries can a more neutral tertiary position on a more complicated colour wheel, by mixing a cool biased hue with a warm biased hue, two opposites, like a Orange-Green with a Violet-Blue mix.

Last, the secondary hue, Violet, is made of both Red-Violet, a warm colour and a blue-Violet a cool hue

When reading the old thread on the B&W 23 had some confusion about whether or not it's an Orange or a Yellow and it's effect on b&w photographs.

Marketed as a Yellow by B&W but, perceived as an Orange by many here, it is in fact, a warm Yellow.

Yellow hues run a wide gamet of mostly warm Yellows, and it is easily demonstrated by looking at an artist's colour chart, the Old Holland oil Paints Colour Chart, viewable on line.


Look at the Cadmium Yellows, starting with a Light or Pale Cadmium Yellow, a Cadmium Yellow, (the most commonly used Cadmium Yellow paint) Medium Cadmium Yellow, and a Heavy Cadmium Yellow.

On the other side of the Yellow scale, generally biased towards the cool, is a Citrus Yellow.

When trying to determine a difficult colour bias, hold the filter with a neutral colour, like a plain Black & White Grey, in the back ground under strong daylight.

The filter can also be tested by holding it up to skylight, between 10:00pm to 2:00pm.

The IMPORTAINT thing is to always be aware that colour contrast filters will have bias towards the cool, warm (and a neutral), and that bias will also, almost always, impact your photograph.

I hope this is of some help when it comes to the interpretation of filter colours.

I prefer to think of color as a continuum with numberous specific wavelengths or combinations of wavelength having specific names. Further the Magenta Yellow Cyan filters on my enlarger are a continuum, but I wish their ranges covered a greater range. When I worked on electro-optical instrument design the sensors, varying from near to far infrared, were wavelength specific or range specific based on the project design needs. On the other end, the ultraviolet work was the collection of ultraviolet spectroscopy.
 

ic-racer

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Messages
16,488
Location
USA
Format
Multi Format
Maybe I'm confused. Are we discussing COLOR CONTRAST FILTERS FOR B&W FILM?
 
Joined
Jan 31, 2020
Messages
1,261
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
Got around to reading Wikipedia a bit. It appears that primaries, secondaries etc. depend on various process considerations and what Eli describes above is a traditional understanding in painting. But as I suspected the colour wheel, as well as color perception, is a continuum and there's nothing inherent in specific hues that would make them universally premaries, secondaries, tertiaries or "pure" or "biased"; it all depends on the color space. Correct? So then what are you telling us, Eli, beyond that not all yellow filters, for instance, are the same yellow?
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom