Color Negative to B+W print

Kirks518 · Aug 4, 2016

Is there special paper needed to print a color negative in black and white? My local lab said they were out of the paper needed, but I was under the impression you just need B+W paper, even if the neg is a color neg. They only print B+W optically, so I figured they would have paper to do this. Just wondering.

pdeeh · Aug 4, 2016

not any more for normal enlarging paper.

the Ilford publication on printing gives info on printing
colour negatives to normal vc paper. can't remember what it is called th at moment.

it's perfectly doable .

railwayman3 · Aug 4, 2016

The lab may have been thinking of Kodak Panalure paper, which was discontinued quite some years ago. This was a panchromatic paper designed to produce a greytone image from colour negs with those tones matching what would be produced by a normal B&W panchromatic film. I guess it was the "Rolls-Royce" solution for theoretically perfect results, but, as pdeeh says, it's entirely possible to get good results with a bit of experimentation on normal B&W papers.

The old technical data sheet is still available on

www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/g27/g27.pdf

RPC · Aug 4, 2016

Ordinary b&w paper does not respond properly to color to produce accurate tones from a color negative. You need panchromatic paper, and I don't know if anybody makes it anymore. I know Kodak use to. So I am not sure if there is any way to accurately do it anymore, but you may be able to get close under the right conditions.

pentaxuser · Aug 4, 2016

I would have thought the local lab would need a separate processor set up for B&W chemicals. Given what I would have thought is a limited demand for genuine B&W prints this would be expensive for the lab.

However I know labs can produce quite good prints from genuine B&W negs on RA4 paper so I'd assume that they could do the same for RA4 B&W prints from a colour neg

pentaxuser

Terry Breedlove · Aug 4, 2016

I have sent my scans off to mpix.com and they have a real black and white paper. It has a pebble texture so I have them coat it and it comes out really nice.

MattKing · Aug 4, 2016

The Ilford black and white roll papers designed for use in high volume, digital/laser exposure printers are light sensitive and are panchromatic, but they are optimized for very short exposures.

removed account4 · Aug 4, 2016

kirks518

the thing is, a color negative onto black and white paper would yield something sort of like what black and white
photography looked like before the 19teens 1920s when panchromatic films became available. it would be like a black and white print
from a paper negative. often times people say orthochromatic, blue blind .. whatever it is the rendition on regular black and white paper
will not look like a "normal" black and white print. reds will look black skin sometimes blotchy, skies sort of without definition ( blank )
.. in other words regular color film CAN be printed on modern black and whtie papers but it won't look ( tonally ) what you might expect your color negative to look like.

have fun !
john

Kirks518 · Aug 4, 2016

Thanks all. As I don't do any wet darkroom stuff, I had no clue.

The image was pretty close to monochromatic, it's my avatar, the SpaceX launch.

TheFlyingCamera · Aug 5, 2016

That image should work fairly well. I've gotten good results when printing from color negative on b/w paper by just adding a lot of magenta filtration, because one of the things that happens with the orange mask in the color negative film is that it absolutely kills contrast. So print on VC paper, with your contrast set up around grade 4 or 5. You'd have to do some experimenting to see if/how you like the look, and how to tweak it to get what you want, but it is possible.

EdSawyer · Aug 5, 2016

Look around for Panalure, it's still out there on ebay, it is definitely the best solution for this if you can find some.

darkroommike · Aug 5, 2016

Once upon a time Kodak made a panchromatic paper called Panalure, the last version Panalure II RC even came in three grades. I used boxes of it to print wallet sized black and whites from high school senior portrait sessions (at that time yearbooks were still conventionally composed and shot using graphic art materials and the color wallets looked wretched when shot on blue sensitive materials). I think that other companies also made similar materials, Konica(?), panchromatic sensitivity, processed in Dektol or the equivalent. Any Panalure you buy on Ebay will be 25 years old or older.

Before the high contrast Panalure RC II H came out, if I got a VPS-III negative that was low in contrast (usually a high key soft focus shot) I would print it on Ilford Multigrade III RC or Kodak Polycontrast III RC with a 3 1/2 filter. These materials are sensitive to both green and blue light so were in essence a pseudo orthochromatic emulsion.

Later one hour labs used to have a monochromatic RA-4 material for printing Ilford XP2 and Kodak 400CN black and white C41 negatives.

Today, other than a d-word solution, you only choice would be a variable contrast paper like Multigrade IV RC.

Gerald C Koch · Aug 5, 2016

As far as I am concerned color negatives do not produce satisfactory prints. You really do need a panchromatic paper.

rpavich · Aug 8, 2016

Gerald C Koch said:
As far as I am concerned color negatives do not produce satisfactory prints. You really do need a panchromatic paper.

I've tried this several times and I have to agree. It's possible but the results aren't pleasing to me. IF you HAVE to have a B&W print and this is the ONLY option...ok, but otherwise, I'd do it using the "D-word" mentioned already.

pdeeh · Aug 8, 2016

Dirigible?
Demodulation?
Dumbledore?

or do we just mean digital?
(there's really no need to be coy)

canvassy · Aug 8, 2016

I actually have some Kodak Panalure II RC paper that I got with my enlarger. Haven't had a chance to try it out yet but this thread has piqued my interest.

mshchem · Aug 9, 2016

Any decent "real camera store" that prints ra-4 should be able to make a very good rc c-print . I still have some frozen fiber base Panalure Portrait dbl. Wt. .I used it for black and white negatives because it toned like no other paper I've ever seen.
Scan your negative and convert it to back and white and use a dreaded ink printer.
Best Regards Mike

chaspics · Dec 2, 2018

Tripped over this post accidentally. If you want a non-digital BW print from a color negative, you can experiment with these ideas. I've been there.
Try projecting onto a sheet of regular panchromatic 25-100 ISO film, and process using any of the Direct Positive Reversal chemicals available. Takes some trial and error. Film will be at least 10x faster than enlarging paper.
More of a pain, but doable, is to use the same procedure as before and process as a negative, then contact /project on to another sheet and process again. Direct Duplicating films used to be available for this purpose, but they're long gone to my knowledge. Furthermore, the masking in color film base is very close to a safelight in color, enough so that using on regular paper can make for some very long exposures.
Good Luck!
Chas

DREW WILEY · Dec 2, 2018

Pain in the butt to do without either a pan paper or via scan. A few weeks ago I made an 8x10 projection interpositive on TMax 100 film from a 6x9 Ektar negative via a deep blue 47 filter. This was used to generate a contact interneg on Arista Ortho Litho film dev in HC-110 1:15 from stock (not conc). Then I printed it on MGWT. The result was way way better than what I would have gotten on something like ole Panalure, but it was a lot of work to do, given the experimentation leading up to it.

adelorenzo · Dec 2, 2018

I've posted about this before, but IME I have found it very easy to print from C-41 negatives on B&W multigrade paper. I keep hearing all this stuff about extremely long exposures or impossible contrast but I wonder how many people posting that have actually tried it.

You can see an example here: Printing color negatives on blackand white paper. My post below quotes the Ilford darkroom manual and is worth reading.

Rudeofus · Dec 3, 2018

adelorenzo said:
You can see an example here: Printing color negatives on blackand white paper. My post below quotes the Ilford darkroom manual and is worth reading.

This example image has no area with significant red hue, it's all yellow brown, gray/white and green. Little surprise that it will print well with high grade B&W paper. I've tried to print this Portra 400 negative onto B&W paper, and the results were a disaster.

Color Negative to B+W print

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Color Negative to B+W print

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