color film please help :)

flaviarosa · May 28, 2020

hello, i’ve never used pinhole or film before but i started reading about it and got really excited to try. so i made 3 pinholes and kind of guessed the size of the hole and took some pictures. i developed and fixed them at home with that method of coffee, washing soda and vitamin c and for the fixer water and salt but they all came out black. i guessed that i overexposured them because i left for a couple of minutes and it was really sunny. just one of them had leaf “marks” on both sides and the rest was black. so i tried a couple more leaving them for just a few seconds and they all turned out black too, one of them kind of white which i think it means it didn’t get the exposure necessary. i tried to do like a lumen print by putting a coin on a piece of film and then developing but i just got a little spot on the side, like a little blob. i don’t know if the problem is on the film, or this developing method (the pictures look brown like sepiaish but there’s nothing in them) or it’s the size of the hole or something else. does anyone know or have some ideas/thoughts about what i’m doing wrong? thank u!

John Koehrer · May 28, 2020

Pinhole size? You would be surprised at the sizes of pinholes. You're looking at diameters of thousandths of an inch, barely a pinprick.
Some articles here and on the web on how to make a suitable size onlne.

Donald Qualls · May 28, 2020

@flaviarosa Most pinhole cameras use a hole between about .25 and .5 mm (.010 to .020 inches). If yours is, say, a full millimeter across (and it might be larger, if you used a map tack and shoved it all the way through your material), and you're using modern ISO 100 to 400 film, your daylight exposure might be as little as a single second.

Making lumen prints with film, on the other hand, has typical exposure times of hours to days, even in direct sunlight. Photographic paper actually prints out faster than film does; you can get a lumen print in a matter of an hour or so.

Also, your fixer is probably not actually fixing your film. I've read many times about using salt water as fixer, but all it'll do is convert silver bromide and iodide in the film (very slowly) to silver chloride -- you'd still have to give the film a bath in clear houshold ammonia to dissolve the resulting silver chloride.

pentaxuser · May 28, 2020

Just for clarification here , flaviarosa, is this a colour film you exposed but decided to develop it with a B&W developer? You thread says Color film

Thanks

pentaxuser

flaviarosa · May 28, 2020

they are all different sizes actually. i guess i got too caught up researching historic context, contemporary uses etc for the text i had to write that i didn’t pay the attention needed to how to properly execute

flaviarosa · May 28, 2020

yes! i was way off leaving it out for so long (i’m using iso 200) but today i tried leaving for not more than 2 seconds and it ended up the same, they look lighter but still nothing in them.
oh, i see. i wanted to get photographic paper originally but it costs like 230 + shipping where i live and i dont have that kind of budget. i also read someplace that film was more sensitive than photo paper so that’s way i didn’t leave for that much time.
i get what you’re saying about the fixer, thank you for telling me but i don’t think that’s the only problem. at least on the videos i saw even when developing in the darkroom you could see that something changed but not on mine

flaviarosa · May 28, 2020

unfortunately yes, pentaxuser, that’s what i did. like i said i don’t have any experience with film and not very much money, i couldn’t find a homemade version of developing color film and didn’t get any answer back if would work so i decided to try it anyway

flaviarosa · May 28, 2020

i don’t know how to reapply directly to the person who answered but do u think that the reason i keep getting the same result is that using the wrong development?

MattKing · May 28, 2020

I'm guessing that your film is being exposed to too much light in general - either from leaking light, or exposure that is too long and too intense.

Nick Dvoracek · May 28, 2020

Those containers look like they’re not even close to opaque enough. I’m guess light is getting transmitted through the box. Also, those pinholes do look a little big.

pentaxuser · May 28, 2020

flaviarosa said:
unfortunately yes, pentaxuser, that’s what i did. like i said i don’t have any experience with film and not very much money, i couldn’t find a homemade version of developing color film and didn’t get any answer back if would work so i decided to try it anyway

Well if you can afford it I would suggest that you obtain some B&W film. When you try something new such as pinhole photography there are enough things to try to get right without having to worry about developing color film in B&W chemistry. Yes it can be done that way but using B&W film makes it easier.

It is worth reading about pinhole photography and how to do it first. Unfortunately I do not think it is as simple as putting a pinhole in one side of a box and hoping that the negative will be OK

There are a few threads here on Photrio on pinhole photography but the problem is that each thread may not be enough and each thread may only cover what the thread's originator wants to discuss

If pinhole photography is what you want to do then it might be worth starting a separate thread asking for help, explaining that you are an absolute beginner in pinhole photography.

pentaxuser

Donald Qualls · May 28, 2020

If you have anything close to the correct exposure, you should at least see a developed image even on color film processed in Caffenol. If not properly fixed, the film may darken over time and exposure to light, but as others have suggested, those containers don't look light tight (and yes, those pinholes are larger than optimal, though they should still produce images with the right exposure).

What I'd suggest to start is find a small metal container to make your camera. I've used Altoids candy tins with good results. There are several good instruction pages around on the Internet on making a pinhole camera, and a bunch of YouTube videos that show doing so -- even to the point of making a (single use) camera from a small matchbox, two 35mm film cassettes (one new, one empty but still light tight -- you can get spent cassettes from photo labs, if there are still any in your area that process film on premises), and some black tape. Once you've made your exposures, with that camera, you can wind the film back to the original cassette and take it to the local lab for processing and know the developing, at least, is done right.

flaviarosa · May 30, 2020

Nick Dvoracek said:
Those containers look like they’re not even close to opaque enough. I’m guess light is getting transmitted through the box. Also, those pinholes do look a little big.

i painted the inside of the boxes black (opaque paint) for that, and sealed the sides, do i have to paint/put black tape or paper on the outside too?

flaviarosa · May 30, 2020

pentaxuser said:
Well if you can afford it I would suggest that you obtain some B&W film. When you try something new such as pinhole photography there are enough things to try to get right without having to worry about developing color film in B&W chemistry. Yes it can be done that way but using B&W film makes it easier.

It is worth reading about pinhole photography and how to do it first. Unfortunately I do not think it is as simple as putting a pinhole in one side of a box and hoping that the negative will be OK

There are a few threads here on Photrio on pinhole photography but the problem is that each thread may not be enough and each thread may only cover what the thread's originator wants to discuss

If pinhole photography is what you want to do then it might be worth starting a separate thread asking for help, explaining that you are an absolute beginner in pinhole photography.

pentaxuser

i can't, that's why i bought color, b&w costs the triple here :/ once quarantine is over, i'll have access to photo paper and proper chemicals in my university but in the meanwhile i tried to develop in this way as to see if it was working and not waste film. i know keeping film undeveloped for months is not the best but i guess it's better than doing it this way? i did read a lot about pinhole actually, that's why i just went ahead and tried, but all the stuff i read talked more about pinhole as a way of communicating, teaching etc and made it sound like it was as simple as putting a pinhole on one side of a box and i see now it's not. i'll read more about it, thank you for your help

flaviarosa · May 30, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
If you have anything close to the correct exposure, you should at least see a developed image even on color film processed in Caffenol. If not properly fixed, the film may darken over time and exposure to light, but as others have suggested, those containers don't look light tight (and yes, those pinholes are larger than optimal, though they should still produce images with the right exposure).

What I'd suggest to start is find a small metal container to make your camera. I've used Altoids candy tins with good results. There are several good instruction pages around on the Internet on making a pinhole camera, and a bunch of YouTube videos that show doing so -- even to the point of making a (single use) camera from a small matchbox, two 35mm film cassettes (one new, one empty but still light tight -- you can get spent cassettes from photo labs, if there are still any in your area that process film on premises), and some black tape. Once you've made your exposures, with that camera, you can wind the film back to the original cassette and take it to the local lab for processing and know the developing, at least, is done right.

that's what i don't get, why i couldn't get anything on any of them even even when exposing just from one sec. even though i painted the inside of the boxes black, there could be some light coming through one the sides but with the round yellow one, there's no way that's the problem because itself is totally sealed (as much as the pinhole is bigger than it should). i even saw a tutorial for a matchbox one like you're saying but i don't have another film cassette and because i'm in my hometown right now, i don't think there's any photo labs here. anyway, thank you very much for your help, i'll research more, try to make new (and proper functional, i hope) ones and pay more attention in doing so.

Donald Qualls · May 30, 2020

Part of your problem might stem from the pinholes being too big. I'm guessing that if you're buying your film at the local shop, it's going to be ISO 400 speed -- almost all consumer 35 mm film is these days. If your pinhole is too big, it may not be practical to make exposures short enough. If you can make your hole smaller, around .25 mm for the size of those cameras, you should get bright sun exposures of two or three seconds instead of being overexposed after one second. Once you can manage that, you should be able to get images you can actually see with Caffenol.

Now, if you have a place around that sells supplies for swimming pools or spas, they'll have sodium thiosulfate as a chlorine reducer. You can use that to make real fixer (60 grams per liter works well in my experience, though for color film, you'll want to fix three minutes, and then fix another three minutes in a second, fresh bath to get full fixing). That will work much better than salt water.

Arthurwg · Jun 1, 2020

Suggest you buy a Zero Image pinhole camera, follow their exposure guidelines and have your film commercially processed.

Donald Qualls · Jun 1, 2020

@Arthurwg Not everyone with an interest in photography has a budget that will stretch to commercial pinhole cameras. Might be worth searching eBay, though; I ordered one from Canada (not in my hands yet, may still be at the border) for less than half the cost of a Zero Image, Obscura, or other commercial pinhole camera.

Arthurwg · Jun 1, 2020

I suggested Zero Image as it gives me great results.

Donald Qualls · Jun 1, 2020

I didn't mean to suggest there's anything wrong with Zero Image -- but they are a premium item. If you know your way around some basic tools, you can get similar results by buying a folder with a bad bellows, removing the lens glass, and remounting the shutter in a hole cut in the folding bed/door. (sealed shut and make light tight, of course). A known good film transport is very good.

The one I purchased is built much like a Zero Image, but for those in North America is a very, very good deal at under US$80 shipped and taxed. The Ilford Obscura is less than I recalled it being, and would be another good deal (but still more than the one I linked). Zero Image 2000 is more than half again the price of the Obscura, albeit a work of woodworking art.

MattKing · Jun 1, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
The one I purchased is built much like a Zero Image, but for those in North America is a very, very good deal at under US$80 shipped and taxed.

Looks good, although I prefer the fact that my Noons Pinhole offers 6x9 and 6x12 as well.
Did you buy the Square Trade extended warranty as well ?

Donald Qualls · Jun 1, 2020

MattKing said:
Did you buy the Square Trade extended warranty as well ?

Nope. Nothing there I can't fix myself if need be, I'm just willing to pay someone else to do the bulk of the woodworking, else I'd finish the project in 2034...

color film please help :)

flaviarosa

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