Collotype ,better than offset but others ?

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Nov 21, 2015

Youtube collotype videos are showing that process is not hard.

And I found collotype postal stamps were long time trade secret and now they are more expensive for collectors.

I want to ask , is that process still good as carbon , platin , wetplate , woodburytype or is it a old time interesting invention ?

Umut

Bill Burk · Nov 21, 2015

Collotypes are easier to produce than Woodburytypes. I don't know if this book by Todd Walker contains collotypes or prints of collotypes. I believe he may have printed the book himself though...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Todd-Walker...sons-Photographics-1st-Ed-Photo-/391325293291

Woodburytypes are harder to come by, and the ones that are available, are typically portraits of actors (so I am not as interested in them).

pschwart · Nov 21, 2015

Mustafa Umut Sarac said:
Youtube collotype videos are showing that process is not hard.

And I found collotype postal stamps were long time trade secret and now they are more expensive for collectors.

I want to ask , is that process still good as carbon , platin , wetplate , woodburytype or is it a old time interesting invention ?

Umut

Collotypes were commercially available until fairly recently. The Benrido studio in Japan is still making collotypes: http://benrido-collotype.today/
It is possible to make collotypes at home (not so, Woodbury's). Collotype is a photomechanical process, but true continuous tone and capable of very high quality. It is plenty difficult, especially in color. You can simplify the process by printing monochrome and using sheet film instead of coating your own glass plates. For best results you need an etching press to print the plates.

gzinsel · Nov 21, 2015

printed work IN INK, regardless of process, IS NOT AS FINE, as prints make with SILVER. However for reproductions Collotype is a great way to render continuous tone images.

NedL · Nov 22, 2015

Interesting that you mention this today. Just yesterday I was wondering if it might be possible to create a collotype using AFC ( ammonium ferric citrate ) instead of dichromate. I think a press would be fun and addictive...

pschwart · Nov 22, 2015

gzinsel said:
printed work IN INK, regardless of process, IS NOT AS FINE, as prints make with SILVER. However for reproductions Collotype is a great way to render continuous tone images.

CAPS don't make this true What is your definition of "fine"? Carbon transfers can match the resolution, acutance, and tonal scale of silver, along an infinite variety of surface treatments, image tones, and relief, too.

gzinsel · Nov 22, 2015

last time I checked, Carbon prints are NOT inked, that would be collotypes. maybe I should have stated in addition to Silver process, those treated by potassium dichromate, either way INK CAN NOT, due to its PHYSICALITY can not render tone as FINELY,, it fills in. Collotype, while is continuous tone, can not match. if you read original post :::is that process still good as carbon , platin , wetplate , woodburytype or is it a old time interesting invention ? so. . .. . I answered . . . ." not as fine" as carbon, platen, wet plate. woodburtype. All of these he is suggesting or comparing to are not Printed with ink!!!!!! they are continuous tone prints made from silver or a dichromate process, which uses the straight line of the curve.

pschwart · Nov 22, 2015

gzinsel said:
last time I checked, Carbon prints are NOT inked, that would be collotypes. maybe I should have stated in addition to Silver process, those treated by potassium dichromate, either way INK CAN NOT, due to its PHYSICALITY can not render tone as FINELY,, it fills in. Collotype, while is continuous tone, can not match. if you read original post :::is that process still good as carbon , platin , wetplate , woodburytype or is it a old time interesting invention ? so. . .. . I answered . . . ." not as fine" as carbon, platen, wet plate. woodburtype. All of these he is suggesting or comparing to are not Printed with ink!!!!!! they are continuous tone prints made from silver or a dichromate process, which uses the straight line of the curve.

Sorry, your communication is not very precise. I have been making carbon transfers with ink for 15 years and they can can render all the detail and tonality of a silver print. I think you are actually referring to planographic or intaglio processes. These can also render a full range of tones and plenty of detail, but if you prefer silver, that's fine. My point is that collotypes can achieve very high quality and until recently were produced by high-end print studios.

jtk · Dec 23, 2022

pschwart said:
Sorry, your communication is not very precise. I have been making carbon transfers with ink for 15 years and they can can render all the detail and tonality of a silver print. I think you are actually referring to planographic or intaglio processes. These can also render a full range of tones and plenty of detail, but if you prefer silver, that's fine. My point is that collotypes can achieve very high quality and until recently were produced by high-end print studios.

I'm currently sorting my collection of collotypes that were printed on very light weight paper, glued onto very light board... beautiful scenic stuff from 19th century. Will do something similar with Japanese Washi paper with gilded edges for some of my own scenics that I've ignored due to my preference for much bigger prints.

jtk · Dec 23, 2022

e.g.. https://www.ebay.com/itm/3345527353...7GWpTHdNKvgEwVd96QQx|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2047675

gone · Dec 23, 2022

Ink is OK, it worked well for Rembrandt, Durer, etc. But ink works better for etchings, they nearly always show a tone from hand wiping the plate. A photo can give bright whites, or you can use toners. Offset printing is for making books and such, you won't get a great image that way.

I don't know why anyone would use the collotype process today vs a fine art process or a photograph, but maybe pschwart knows how to go about getting what he likes. It would seem difficult/impossible to get sharp images up close due the the way they're made, although from viewing distance they look just fine. A mezzotint can kick it's butt in sharpness and tone, but that's a fine art process that is a very, very hard thing to make.

You may be able to make an analog photo mezzotint, that might be "better" than a collotype?, but I don't know how it's done. People often make fake mezzotints in PS, but it's sort of a BS process.

jtk · Dec 24, 2022

Momus, analog mezzotint is not just an effect/look/style: it's a halftone that uses scratches rather than dots.

The mezzotint halftone screen is/was used same way as conventional halftone screen, in contact with Kodalith film (100% black, no tone). It can be more attractive than straight continuous tone or conventional half-tone. The highlights can pop selectively, according to skill set.

I had posters printed as marketing pieces by a small, more-than-usually skilled San Francisco litho shop..gave those to major agency art directors (e.g. Young & Rubicam) and got immediate assignments for B&W photography. Knowing about that gave me a big competitive edge.

Collotypes can also be beautiful, were relied upon for small print by many pros in Stieglitz era. I have a collection of those that were shot in Central Europe before Soviet/Nazi atrocities.

jtk · Dec 25, 2022

jtk said:
Momus, analog mezzotint is not just an effect/look/style: it's a halftone that uses scratches rather than dots.

The mezzotint halftone screen is/was used same way as conventional halftone screen, in contact with Kodalith film (100% black, no tone). It can be more attractive than straight continuous tone or conventional half-tone. The highlights can pop selectively, according to skill set.

I had posters printed as marketing pieces by a small, more-than-usually skilled San Francisco litho shop..gave those to major agency art directors (e.g. Young & Rubicam) and got immediate assignments for B&W photography. Knowing about that gave me a big competitive edge.

Collotypes can also be beautiful, were relied upon for small print by many pros in Stieglitz era. I have a collection of those that were shot in Central Europe before Soviet/Nazi atrocities.

Should add that my small collection of collotype prints is mostly mounted on gilt-edged cabinet cards.

Collotype ,better than offset but others ?

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