cold temperature development?

Murray@uptowngallery · Oct 22, 2006

How cold can one process b/w film?

I spoke (typed) with photo-engineer - he was aware of published Kodak data down to 55 F. Same day I found a chart from Ilford down to the same temperature range.

I may print one out and continue extending the curves (sloped lines really) to get a 'hunch' idea of how long at colder temps.

At this time, film development is not a welcome odor in my home, so I consider the pathetic working environment of the garage as winter approaches. I thought the outdoor photographers of the late 19th and early 20th century must have had a wide range of mountain spring water to deal with.

Anyone aware of any tribal or published knowledge about this?

Another thought is mix outside, bring inside to warm up, and place tank into a larger (foam cooler) water vessel to slow cooling rate...could be done processing before reticulation could think about happening?

Thanks

Murray

Photo Engineer · Oct 22, 2006

Murray;

I think you will find that the chances of reticulation are very low provided that all of the temperatures are close to the same, or that there are no temperature shocks. So, if you want to process at 40, and everything is there, you will be ok. However, when you come to the wash, start at 40 and warm up to 68 or so. That should be done slowly and then you can dry normally.

Sorry that I couldn't be of more help.

PE

dancqu · Oct 22, 2006

Murray@uptowngallery said:
At this time, film development is not a
welcome odor in my home ...Thanks Murray

Odor? If any process in the darkroom is easily odorless
it is film developing. Dan

Peter Black · Oct 22, 2006

Murray

Assuming your garage has power in it, what about a water bath with a fishtank heater to heat up the chemicals? And if your car has climate control, just set it for 68 and sit back and relax

Digidurst · Oct 23, 2006

Peter Black said:
Murray

Assuming your garage has power in it, what about a water bath with a fishtank heater to heat up the chemicals? And if your car has climate control, just set it for 68 and sit back and relax

But you might want to open the garage door first

Steve Smith · Oct 23, 2006

Peter Black said:
And if your car has climate control, just set it for 68 and sit back and relax

A car in a garage? What a waste of space!

Steve.

David A. Goldfarb · Oct 23, 2006

I've read that Weston's darkroom was in an unheated space, and I suppose that at one time this was more common than having a heated darkroom, so it can be done if you can tolerate it.

Murray@uptowngallery · Oct 23, 2006

Yeah, I had to make a concession for my wife's car. My car still sleeps under the stars, fresh air, etc.

Thanks, all. If I eventually want to do the 19th c. processes, I might as well learn to get by without heat, electricity, etc...

Gerald Koch · Oct 23, 2006

There are special formulas which allow processing as low as -40 C. Hydroquinone becomes unreactive below 10 C so these developers depend on metol or amidol as the developing agents. Kodak SD-22 is an example formula.

Bromo33333 · Oct 23, 2006

Steve Smith said:
A car in a garage? What a waste of space!

Steve.

In Rochester, it isn't at least from November to April. Nothing like getting up to 1m+ of snow that fell the previous evening, and having to shovel off your car before driving to work if you parked it outside (unless you have a snow blower, you will be hiring someone to clear your driveway on a subscription basis).

Claire Senft · Oct 23, 2006

A sugesstion: Get a crockpot..not me, I am a crackpot. Establish a normal developing temp. For example 68ºF. Determine how hot the developer must be to give an average of 68ºF for the ambient temp. Heat your film developer in a stainless tank in the crockpot to that temp and use the drift thru method.

Huub S · Oct 23, 2006

Why not consider a Jobo processor and start rotary processing at 20 C? When you buy one that can cool also, you will be helped in the hot summers as well...

Huub

Huub S · Oct 23, 2006

Why not consider a Jobo processor and start rotary processing at 20 C? When you buy one that can cool also, you will be helped in the hot summers as well...

Huub

Thomas Bertilsson · Oct 23, 2006

It'll be the first ever garage heater manufactured by Jobo...

- Thom

fschifano · Oct 23, 2006

Film developing really is one of the least stinky aspects of this process. Instead of going crazy trying to do this in the cold, here are a few tips to make it even less smelly.

First, avoid toners. Granted you don't need them nor does anyone ever use them very much with film, but the the practice is not unheard of. Two bath sepia toners smell like rotten eggs. Selenium toners have a very strong ammonia smell.

Don't use an acetic acid based stop bath. Though I am personally predisposed to using a stop bath, a few changes of fresh water coupled with a bit of agitation can serve as a perfectly acceptable stop bath. Another alternative is to use a stop bath based on citric acid. That's odorless, but it has a lesser capacity compared to acetic acid. IIRC, Ilford's stop bath is a citric acid based product. There are other brands as well, though I can't recall the brand names now. There is one brand that claims to be vanilla scented. That's a bit over the top for me, but whatever floats your boat I guess.

Finally, avoid sodium thoisulfate based, hardening fixers like "Kodak Fixer" in the yellow envelope. It smells and the smell gets stronger as the stuff degrades with use. An alternative, and a better fixer anyway, is Kodak's Flexicolor Fixer and Replenisher. This product has a very low odor, contains no hardener (which you probably won't need anyway), works very quickly, and has a lot of capacity.

That's it. The same advice applies to chemistry when making prints. Print toning can be done anytime after the prints are made. All you need to do is soak them in water and proceed as normal with toning. Save up a batch and do them in the garage when the weather warms up again.

nworth · Oct 24, 2006

The best idea for you is to use heaters - a space heater to keep you warm and maybe fish tank heaters for the solutions. Remember that everything slows down at lower temperatures, including the fix.

Of interest is that Kodak published instructions for processing film down to -20F. D-8 is less active at low temperatures, and it can be used as a normal contrast developer between 0 and 10C. D82+caustic has also been recommended. Below freezing these developers can be compounded with ethylene glycol (antifreeze), and they still work.

kmack · Oct 24, 2006

From a page about William Mortensen on the Unblinking Eye:

Lynn Jones, head of the photography department at Austin Community College, worked as an assistant for Bill Mortensen in the early 1950’s. He tells a very interesting story of Mortensen, in an on-going quest for gamma infinity, developing film for up to a week by keeping the developing can in the refrigerator and agitating once a day. Lynn asked him when he planned to take it out and he responded, “just before the emulsion falls off!”

Ole · Oct 24, 2006

I'll see if I can find some of the old Afga developers for "winter use". I also have some advice somewhere on how to keep solutions warm in winter, from the days before central heating

As to odorless chemistry, I haven't found any fixer yet which smells less than my own OF-1!

Helen B · Oct 24, 2006

Though I think that other methods are preferable to using a low temperature developer, out of interest here's what Jacobson has to say, paraphrased:

Developing below 55 degF is a last resort.

Use a high energy developer to reduce developing times. (how about jdef's rapid developer, I wonder).

Add glycol to prevent freezing.

High Energy Formula
metol 14 g
hydroquinone 14 g
sodium sulphite, anh 52.5 g
sodium hydroxide 17.6 g
potassium bromide 8.8 g
benzotriazole 0.2 g
water to one litre.

Use at stock strength above freezing.
Dilute 3 parts dev with one part propylene glycol for use below freezing, usable down to 5 degF.

He gives an amidol-catechol formula (Kodak SD22, formulated by Henn and Crabtree) for even lower temperature processing, but suggests that it has a very short shelf-life and should only be used in exceptional circumstances.

He also gives a two-bath formula, the first bath being hydroquinone and dilute sulphurous acid, the second being 30% potassium hydroxide. 'It is quite possible that the heat of reaction at the moment of contact between the acid-soaked film and the alkali solution plays an important part in speeding up the development'

Best,
Helen

David Brown · Oct 24, 2006

David A. Goldfarb said:
I've read that Weston's darkroom was in an unheated space, and I suppose that at one time this was more common than having a heated darkroom, so it can be done if you can tolerate it.

Yes, but in Carmel, is it ever other than 70 degrees?

Murray@uptowngallery · Nov 15, 2006

Thanks all for updates. In reality, having room to stand in the garage is a higher priority than a space heater. One step at a time.

cold temperature development?

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