Cold grainy lith prints

Lyn Arnold · Jan 10, 2009

Hello All,
I want to re-produce cold grainy lith prints that were possible with Sterling VC RC paper (not the lith paper) and Kodalith RT developer. Sterling paper gave a soft creamy look to the highlights and lovely black and grey grainy shadows. While Kodalith may still be available, Sterling paper isn't.

By the way, lith developers are pretty scarce in Australia. We are unable to get Novalith, Naccolith or any of the Moersch products -- just Fotospeed LD 20. I have been mixing up Ansco 81, but it is too warm for my subjects.

Will be mixing up some D85 variation formula that Ian Grant posted last week, but am waiting on the boric acid -- another item that seems to have disappeared from pharmacy shelves. How does the D85 look on either warmtone or coldtone paper -- say Forte (which I have been hoarding for a lith project).

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance
Lyn

Rich Ullsmith · Jan 10, 2009

Hello, Lyn. I have not been able to discern any appreciable difference between any of the lith developers, except for tray life. I am not familiar with the D-85.

Short exposures and a developer with little or no KBr and less rather than more old brown will result in a more graphic print. I don't know if that is any help, as you are probably already aware of that.

mrtoml · Jan 10, 2009

I get most grain when I use Foma Variant 111. Gold toning will also cool down the print eventually shifting to blue with many papers.

Example of 111:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alt-digital/2964762454/

Example of Kentona + gold:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alt-digital/2957818343/

Lyn Arnold · Jan 10, 2009

Thank you Rich and Mark. Mark, your examples are wonderful. But I also like the image of the hoe -- while it is warmer it still has the "gritty" look. The only Foma paper available here is Fomaspeed 311 and 312. I'm waiting for our dollar to get closer to parity with the US dollar and I'll order some paper from the US. Shipping cost is a killer though.

Lyn Arnold

ic-racer · Jan 10, 2009

The way I have been emphasizing the paper grain is to print at 4x5 inches, then the prints are scanned (like you might scan a 4x5 negative) and color printed in that other "domain" that utilizes 0 and 1.

Jarvman · Jan 10, 2009

Hi Lyn, from what I know Sterling paper is now marketed as Fotospeed Lith or at least they are virtually the same paper. You'll get the effects you're looking for by using their lith paper. Much grainier compared to Foma plus with much cooler colours if the LD-20 dev is fresh. Foma paper in LD-20 doesn't take much usuage to give warm tones, even fresh its still faily warm and the paper base is cream rather than white too.

Jarvman · Jan 10, 2009

here's one, this was with some ol brown too I believe. Cold and grainsome enough?

Phillip P. Dimor · Jan 10, 2009

That is a beautiful print.

Lyn Arnold · Jan 11, 2009

Jarvman said:
here's one, this was with some ol brown too I believe. Cold and grainsome enough?

Just 'loverly' and the look I'm after. Thanks.

What a great resource this APUG is!

Lyn

Lyn Arnold · Jan 11, 2009

ic-racer said:
The way I have been emphasizing the paper grain is to print at 4x5 inches, then the prints are scanned (like you might scan a 4x5 negative) and color printed in that other "domain" that utilizes 0 and 1.

Many thanks ic-racer. Very impressive. I use that machine of 0s and 1s a lot, but not very much for images. I really love to muck around in the darkroom. But I'll certainly give the scanner etc a run.

Lyn Arnold

mrtoml · Jan 11, 2009

Jarvman said:
Foma paper in LD-20 doesn't take much usuage to give warm tones, even fresh its still faily warm and the paper base is cream rather than white too.

Just to clarify Foma variant 111 has a white base. Fomatone MG has a creamy base. Both behave in quite different ways in lith chemistry.

Jarvman · Jan 11, 2009

Sorry, didn't mean to overstep then. Forgot to specify it was the MG paper. Haven't used any of their other papers. I never read your post properly Mark. That snowy print looks really nice. I'll have to try some of that Foma variant 111 some time. How does it respond to gold toning? I want something that goes as blue as Fotospeed. The MG doesn't look so perdy in gold toner. Did you get my message about scanning prints?

mrtoml · Jan 11, 2009

Jarvman said:
Sorry, didn't mean to overstep then. Forgot to specify it was the MG paper. Haven't used any of their other papers. That snowy print looks really nice Mark. I'll have to try some of that Foma variant some time. How does it respond to gold toning? I want something that goes as blue as Fotospeed. The MG doesn't look so perdy in gold toner. Did you get my message about scanning prints?

No problem. I was just clarifying as the OP is in Australia. It would be pretty annoying to order some foma paper assuming it had a warm base and then finding it is white after the huge postal charges

I don't do a lot of gold toning, but the only swatch I have of foma variant 111 in gold is a very subtle effect. Just slightly blue (see attachment). I have much stronger blue with other papers in my files:

E.g., Adox fineprint:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alt-digital/2982126154/

I also get a nice deepish blue with Fomatone MG, fotospeed lith and Kentona. I use Fotospeed AU20 toner and there isn't a lot of difference between them.

I didn't get your message (did you PM me?)

patricia de roeck · Jan 12, 2009

Greetings from Tassie Lyn - just to let you know that I've just bought some Maco Superlith 500ml from Vanbar in North Melbourne - though they tell me its not called Maco anymore - more brand name musical chairs!
Patricia

Lyn Arnold · Jan 13, 2009

patricia de roeck said:
Greetings from Tassie Lyn - just to let you know that I've just bought some Maco Superlith 500ml from Vanbar in North Melbourne - though they tell me its not called Maco anymore - more brand name musical chairs!
Patricia

Greetings to you, Patricia. We have a Vanbar in Sydney, and was there today. Thanks for your suggestion of Maco Superlith. I used this developer a few years ago, and could only get some rather uninteresting browns, but can't remember the paper. Today, I bought some Maco Multibrom. If it doesn't work for lith, I may get some use from it with bromoil (another love of mine). But I'll mix up Ian Grant's formula for D-85, and omit the KBr. I want to nail a paper/developer combination for a small portfolio (about 12 images) this year.

Lyn Arnold

Cold grainy lith prints

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