Coating your own Azo?

Jorge · Apr 14, 2005

I had an interesting call tonight. A friend of mine who is a professional photographer in Mexico City like to dabble in alt printing. So he had some baryta paper that he had mistakenly exposed to room light and rather than throw the paper away he decided fix it and then coat it with solutions for salt prints and according to him they came out beautiful. For those who have not done salt prints, a paper is seeded with a solution of ammonium or sodium chloride and then it is coated with a solution of silver nitrate to form silver chloride. This is essentially azo paper....

SO those of you who love Azo and are always worrying Kodak might discontinue it, dont dispair you might still have a way to print in your favorite manner..

Alex Hawley · Apr 14, 2005

Sounds highly interesting Jorge. Two questions:
1) Where can the paper be obtained?
2) How can contrast grade be controlled?

Jorge · Apr 14, 2005

Alex Hawley said:
Sounds highly interesting Jorge. Two questions:
1) Where can the paper be obtained?
2) How can contrast grade be controlled?

The paper is fixed out regular enlarger paper, the contrast can be controlled by adding an oxidizer to the solution like potassium dichromate. But some testing would have to be required as I have never done it, dont want to sound like an expert on this.

BTW, I imagine any of the silver processes like Kallitype or Argyrotype would work on fixed out paper, much like Craig's method for printing pt/pd in baryta paper. I made one pd print on enlarger paper and it came out pretty good, but then I thought why make a pt/pd or pd print that is going to look like a regular enlargement? one thing though is that the 3D look was very good.....the print has some incredible depth.

Digidurst · Apr 14, 2005

Jorge said:
BTW, I imagine any of the silver processes like Kallitype or Argyrotype would work on fixed out paper, much like Craig's method for printing pt/pd in baryta paper. I made one pd print on enlarger paper and it came out pretty good, but then I thought why make a pt/pd or pd print that is going to look like a regular enlargement? one thing though is that the 3D look was very good.....the print has some incredible depth.

Interesting... You know I'm going to HAVE to experiment. Just a quick clarification - your friend fixed the paper, excluding all the previous steps (developer, stop) for how long?

Jorge · Apr 14, 2005

Digidurst said:
Interesting... You know I'm going to HAVE to experiment. Just a quick clarification - your friend fixed the paper, excluding all the previous steps (developer, stop) for how long?

Since you are trying to remove all the silver I imagine fixing for a little longer than normally recommended would be better. If you are using rapid fixer, I would say fix for 3 mins instead of 1.

He did say that the paper has to be washed throughly before recoating or you would get brown spots.

Let us know how you get along.....and post some prints.

Donald Miller · Apr 14, 2005

I did receive a copy of Craigs earlier booklet on his procedure. (It is around somewhere packed up at the moment.) To the best of my memory he did use tween in his pt-pd work because the problem was even absorbtion of the coating into the gelatin layer. There was some consideration of temperatures as well. I seem to recall a hotplate being used. I don't know how or if this would be required in the coating process that this thread addresses.

Perhaps Craig could elaborate on his process if he comes across this thread.

Jorge · Apr 14, 2005

Donald Miller said:
I did receive a copy of Craigs earlier booklet on his procedure. (It is around somewhere packed up at the moment.) To the best of my memory he did use tween in his pt-pd work because the problem was even absorbtion of the coating into the gelatin layer. There was some consideration of temperatures as well. I seem to recall a hotplate being used. I don't know how or if this would be required in the coating process that this thread addresses.

Perhaps Craig could elaborate on his process if he comes across this thread.

My friend did not do any of that, I too have the booklet and I know what you are talking about. Craig makes two coatings, one with a warmed up support and one with a cold one.

Interestingly enough, a while back there was a discussion of tonning Kallitypes with pd for permanence and how the pd replaces the silver in the print. So I thought why not just coat the fiber paper without fixing it first. It worked pretty good, there was some loss of speed but I did not have to make all the different coatings as explained by Craig. The problem was that I could not get rid of that yellowish tint the fiber paper has before it is fixed. The again I only did one print and did not really make an effort to make this a workable method.

Donald Miller · Apr 14, 2005

Jorge said:
My friend did not do any of that, I too have the booklet and I know what you are talking about. Craig makes two coatings, one with a warmed up support and one with a cold one.

Interestingly enough, a while back there was a discussion of tonning Kallitypes with pd for permanence and how the pd replaces the silver in the print. So I thought why not just coat the fiber paper without fixing it first. It worked pretty good, there was some loss of speed but I did not have to make all the different coatings as explained by Craig. The problem was that I could not get rid of that yellowish tint the fiber paper has before it is fixed. The again I only did one print and did not really make an effort to make this a workable method.

Jorge,

That was the deal with the temperature...thanks for reminding me. I think that there is certainly some potential to explore here. Need to get my darkroom reestablished so that I can get back to it.

Digidurst · Apr 14, 2005

Jorge said:
Since you are trying to remove all the silver I imagine fixing for a little longer than normally recommended would be better. If you are using rapid fixer, I would say fix for 3 mins instead of 1.

He did say that the paper has to be washed throughly before recoating or you would get brown spots.

Let us know how you get along.....and post some prints.

Will do! Thanks

removed account4 · Apr 14, 2005

Jorge said:
Since you are trying to remove all the silver I imagine fixing for a little longer than normally recommended would be better. If you are using rapid fixer, I would say fix for 3 mins instead of 1.

He did say that the paper has to be washed throughly before recoating or you would get brown spots.

Let us know how you get along.....and post some prints.

jorge -

wouldn't rapid (modern) fix bleach the print?
i know when fixing salt prints it is recommended that a hypo solution is used ...
just wonderin'

-john

Jorge · Apr 14, 2005

jnanian said:
jorge -

wouldn't rapid (modern) fix bleach the print?
i know when fixing salt prints it is recommended that a hypo solution is used ...
just wonderin'

-john

Uh...you fix before you make the print...... shot of expresso on its way to you John..

removed account4 · Apr 14, 2005

Jorge said:
Uh...you fix before you make the print...... shot of expresso on its way to you John..

thanks dude, i needed that!

Coating your own Azo?

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