Coating fixed-out baryta paper

Hello All,

Long time lurker, occasional poster here.

I have recently revised and re-designed a booklet that I wrote a while back aimed at helping anyone familiar with hand coating cotton papers achieve an even coating of platinum and palladium (and other alt technique) solutions on fixed-out baryta paper.

If you have some extra or out-of-date baryta aka fibre-based photo paper laying around, you can fix the silver out of it, wash it and dry it and have a fantastic substrate for alt process printing....if you can convince the solutions to cooperate. It took me a couple of years to figure out just how to do that, but I finally managed it and that is what my "how to" guide is all about.

Plat/palladium prints on baryta paper have the same subtle gradation of tones as prints on cotton paper but, according to my most recent measurements, they have nearly a gajillion times more detail and a boat-load more Dmax. The warm tones are more intense, the depth more, well, deeper, and the images are so sharp that you may want to have a first aid kit handy in case you cut your eyeball looking at them.

WARNING SELF PROMO ALERT:

So I am posting here today to let you all know that my guide is now available (in a new and improved design) via Blurb just in time for Festivus. If you would like to purchase a copy, hit the "buy" button here, and feel good knowing that you will soon be making platinum/palladium prints that make all others look like anemic vampires and that I have promised Sean that I will donate a percentage of the sales to APUG.

Here's the blurb link: http://www.blurb.com/my/book/detail/1819950

Happy printing!!!

OK...This may come across as a little b!#chy, but considering you've posted this on APUG and HP (and others?), I want to say this:

--You've posted no examples or comparisons of images on baryta papers coated with your method vs. more conventional methods of coating high-quality w/c or printmaking papers
--Your book costs almost $30..and given that many people claim that gelatin can interfere with Pt/Pd, and there's no option to download a PDF for a lower cost (compared to, as an example, Ron Reeder's new digi-neg book on Lulu).
--There are no reviews (or easy-to-read previews...the Blurb "preview" is, to all intents and purposes, illegible, even in full-screen mode), so no way to evaluate the quality of your process, methods, or writing. So no objective way to decide whether I want to purchase the book.
--Your posting history on both APUG and HP is old...your only post in more than a year on both forums is to promote your book, with, I'll note, a subject line that belies the commercial nature of your post.

I'm not saying you're not entitled to compensation for your efforts, and I'm not saying your methods don't work (I have no way of knowing), but you're basically asking us to purchase this on faith...I don't do that.

I apologize if this comes across as an attack...it's not. But I think the way you've gone about this is not the best, and I wanted to share my reasons for *not* purchasing your book at this time, despite a keen interest in the subject.

--Greg

No worries Greg,

Let me reply to one (well made) point at a time.

--You've posted no examples or comparisons of images on baryta papers coated with your method vs. more conventional methods of coating high-quality w/c or printmaking papers

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There is one side-by side comparison in the book, but as you know, a printed book or an on-screen display cannot give more than just a hint of how different the images can look. In any case, here is an image on Arches Platine




Here is the same image on fixed-out Ilford Gallery paper

--Your book costs almost $30..and given that many people claim that gelatin can interfere with Pt/Pd, and there's no option to download a PDF for a lower cost (compared to, as an example, Ron Reeder's new digi-neg book on Lulu).

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Ya, Blurb books tend to be more expensive. I ran a book or three through Lulu but the print quality was not as good. But I will look into posting a download PDF option to Lulu, thanks for the tip!

As for gelatin interfering with pt/pd it is true! It makes it difficult to coat a fixed-out sheet of paper. That is the rubik's cube I had to figure out. But once that problem is solved, the prints look great and I have not seen any negative interactions between the gelatin and the pt/pd solutions...or cyanotype or kalitype solutions. Of course I am no Wilhelm research guy, so I cannot say they will last until the next ice-age, but so far, so good!

--There are no reviews (or easy-to-read previews...the Blurb "preview" is, to all intents and purposes, illegible, even in full-screen mode), so no way to evaluate the quality of your process, methods, or writing. So no objective way to decide whether I want to purchase the book.

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I hear ya! But I cannot control the quality of the Blurb preview. They may sprinkle some sort of pixie dust on it to make it illegible...I'm not sure. As for reviews, I hope someone will provide one soon and give an honest opinion, warts and all.

When I was working the process out I sent samples of my prints to some experts (Mr. King, Mr. Nadau, Mr. Arentz) to get feedback from them. I also had Mr. Mclean, a chrysotype printing in the UK, help me with the text. (He managed to use the technique to print chyrsotypes on baryta, he send me one, it is stunning!!). I also demonstrated the technique at a workshop hosted by Mr. Arentz in Arizona a few years ago. All of the students there managed to make some pretty nice prints.

--Your posting history on both APUG and HP is old...your only post in more than a year on both forums is to promote your book, with, I'll note, a subject line that belies the commercial nature of your post.

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I plead guilty to regular lurking and irregular posting on APUG and this forum. To be honest, the pt/pd book has been on the back burner for a long time. I have been working on other books (mainly about dogs www.dogwilling.ca) and setting up a publishing company. My posting history on gundog sites borders on the obsessive. When the book was finally good to go, I figured I should pipe up and let folks know that it is available. As you point out, I may not have gone about it in the most effective way. Live and learn.

I'm not saying you're not entitled to compensation for your efforts, and I'm not saying your methods don't work (I have no way of knowing), but you're basically asking us to purchase this on faith...I don't do that.

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Not much I can say to that except that I do, on occasion, purchase on faith. But if you want some reassurance, wait till someone posts a review (good, bad or indifferent) or buy a copy, read it, evaluate it and if, for any reason, you don't like it, send it back to me for a full refund...or wait till I figure out how to upload a PDF to Lulu, thanks again for the tip)

I apologize if this comes across as an attack...it's not. But I think the way you've gone about this is not the best, and I wanted to share my reasons for *not* purchasing your book at this time, despite a keen interest in the subject.

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No worries! Thanks for your feedback, I live to learn.

Craig

I'd like to say a word in support of Craig and others like him (including, prospectively, myself...) I bought his book immediately - hasn't arrived yet so can't report on its virtues or deficiencies.

There's no way that the few miserable bucks Craig will make from selling his Blurb book to the tiny alt-process market will compensate him for the time and effort he put into organizing, writing, and publishing, let alone the many hours and dollars that he must have spent figuring out the process itself.

He could have kept the information to himself as a trade secret and been the only guy who could make you one of these particular prints, but instead he is willing to share and enrich us all. Some do that for free, but I sure don't mind a token payment for all that knowledge. It's pretty cheap compared to the bill I'll get for my next B&S order, and not much of a gamble if it doesn't work out for me.

I write with some understanding; as I've mentioned before I have developed my own digital negative methods, still evolving. The work involved in making the method user-friendly to others is a considerable portion of the effort - I could just use it myself and save a lot of trouble, but I do hope to share it, for a modest fee, in due course. The reward is not the money but the interaction with others who use a method in ways one would never think of for oneself.

Best, Ben

The reward is not the money but the interaction with others who use a method in ways one would never think of for oneself.

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Bingo!

Thanks Ben, you hit the nail on the head. I really like many of the prints I have made with my method, but the images I have seen from others have blown me away. I really hope that the folks who use my method will "push the envelope", improve it and come up with some great stuff. For example, I have yet to achieve a good ziatype print on Baryta but I am sure someone could figure it out.

And I have yet to make a digital negative suitable for printing on baryta since the prints are as sharp as silver prints and tend to reveal the poor quality of my inkjet printer.

Lately I have been working more and more with cyanotype on baryta mainly because it is so much cheaper and in some ways, easier to get an even coating. But I am really starting to like the look of the prints and figure that there is a lot of room for exploration with the various cyanotype formulae.
This print was made with just run of the mill classic cyanotype chems. It is on some ancient fixed-out oriental seagull paper that I rescued from the dustbin at a local photo store.



Here is a lovely Chrysotype made by Tony Mclean


And here is a Van Dyke Brown print. A very good process to learn the technique since it is way, way cheaper than pt/pd and offers a similar look

First of all...having been away from my posting for a couple of days, I see that I may have come across a lot harsher than I intended.

In my comments directed towards Craig, I did not mean to imply that he shouldn't be recognized for his effort, nor to imply that he shouldn't be compensated for that effort. My objections related solely to the method by which he chose to promote the book, "parachuting in" (this is the phrase he used on APUG), and not providing the prospective customer any means by which to evaluate the purchase decision. I'm a very deliberate person, I wouldn't likely buy a $30 bottle of wine without having tasted it, nor would I buy a $30 memory card without having read a review or benchmarks of it. His follow-up to my post addressed those concerns to my satisfaction.

So beyond this, all I have to say is that I'm looking forward to reading some reviews/feedback on the book, that I wish Craig the best of luck with the book, and that I hope he finds HybridPhoto a worthwhile place to be an active member of.

--Greg

CraigK said:

And I have yet to make a digital negative suitable for printing on baryta since the prints are as sharp as silver prints and tend to reveal the poor quality of my inkjet printer.

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And now to get back on topic...

What printer have you been using for your digi-neg experiments? Many people (including me) use digi-negs for carbon transfer onto baryta paper (which is also a very sharp contact printing process), so I'm curious about whether you think this is a fundamental limitation of coating baryta in this way, or just a shortcoming of your printer.

--Greg

gmikol said:

And now to get back on topic...

What printer have you been using for your digi-neg experiments? Many people (including me) use digi-negs for carbon transfer onto baryta paper (which is also a very sharp contact printing process), so I'm curious about whether you think this is a fundamental limitation of coating baryta in this way, or just a shortcoming of your printer.--Greg

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It's totally my printer.

I used to use a (now dead) Canon S9000 for diginegs. I was able to work out a fairly good curve/color combo and for prints on cotton paper and the negs worked great. But on baryta paper, there is no cotton paper roughness to mask some of the flaws in my printer....I could see dots, banding etc. The prints were just too detailed, about as sharp as prints on silver paper. I could never work out a way, with that printer, to get a smooth enough neg. for baryta.

Here is an image made with a digi neg from the Canon printer. I doubt they are visible on a computer screen, but there are subtle lines and dots that betray the fact that the neg is from a not so great inkjet printer.



I think that the new Epsons (and probably the new Canons as well) would work well. Basically, any printer that you use to get negs good enough to print on silver paper, azo or carbon transfer would be just fine for pt/pd prints on baryta.

I should also add that for 99% of my work, I used traditional negs. lots of HP5 and FP4 etc. But I found that I could also use Polaroid Type 55 instant negs too. Normally, for work on cotton paper, the negs are way too soft. I would have to use way too much contrast agent (restrainer) and that would lead to grainy uglyness in the print. On baryta paper, pt/pd solutions print with more contrast for any given neg (about one grade) and I noticed that I could use a ton of restrainer (chlorate) compared to prints on cotton paper. I have no idea what it is about the method, but I could really boost the contrast without getting any of the grainy, smudgy look that I get on cotton paper if I use anything more than a hint of restrainer.

Here is an image made with a Polaroid Type 55 neg. As mentioned above, pt/pd prints on baryta paper print with more contrast and seem to tolerate higher levels of chlorate or other restrainers without many negative effects. So using Type 55 negs, or other negs that are softer than you would normally use for pt/pd is very do-able. I have noted this tendency with Cyanotype and VDB prints as well. They tend to have more inherent contrast (maybe due to the higher Dmax I am able to get on baryta).



Also notice that the edges of the coating area. When you coat on baryta paper, you have to accept that those cool brush stroke edges that many of us love on cotton paper just ain't gonna happen

CraigK said:

Also notice that the edges of the coating area. When you coat on baryta paper, you have to accept that those cool brush stroke edges that many of us love on cotton paper just ain't gonna happen

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Awwwww...maaaaaan..... Without the brush-strokes, how are we supposed to know it's "art"?

--Greg

Well, I am sure there is a photoshop plug-in for the brushstroke look!