Clubs "photography"

Hi Tom

Well....... I have always been perplexed by this perceived need to arrange pictures into a panel. That to increase chances of 'success' it is advisable apparently to have consultations with people 'in the know'. It probably doesn't surprise you that I haven't ever been tempted to expend effort in this manner.

That said, it does seem to motivate some people. The letters after their name acting as a carrot, and no, I do not regard them as Asses! Somehow it seems to drive them on and the cohesive appeal of a panel grabs them. Also the RPS is held by them to be a prestigious organisation.

I went to the RPS print show in Bath a couple of years ago. Some wonderful pictures, and lots of Whistlers. Describing my speed of motion past them rather than any semblance to the wonderful painter.

Anyway let's not hijack the thread. So after a short pause for deviation, hesitation etc its back to Camera Clubs

There are several clubs in our area. The two general purpose clubs are dominated by digital, and seem to be controlled by just a few members. One is all about competitions with your standard PSA judge intoning "profound" cliches. I now avoid both like the plague.

Another more serious "club" tries to combine all aspects of art including photography in their meetings (last meeting was on sketching & sculpture). Unfortunately, most of the photogs in that group seem primarily concerned with Corel Painter. But there have also been some interesting workshops, so there's hope.

Two smaller groups have been helpful - a large format photo group, which has been meeting for over 6 yrs; and a newer alt photo process group. I think specialized groups are of more benefit to long-term growth.

My two hour drive to the Wyandotte Camera Club meetings in Kansas City is worthwhile. We do have competitions, but these are more constructive than cotthroat competative. It is strictly a black & white club, although most members have gone digital. The club recently had its 80 year retrospective exhibit. Other clubs may have more problems with domineering individuals and overblown egos. Perhaps adhering to the traditions (and sometimes innovations) of B&W has a civilizing effect on the Wyandotte Camera Club members. No two clubs are alike. I suggest that anyone should be open to visiting clubs. Little is lost if they aren't satisfying. Much is gained in the right club.

I joined my local club to try to improve my photographic motivation which was somewhat lacking at the time. After a couple of years I have decided that it really is a waste of time as their aesthetic horizons are so limited.

The constant emphasis on competitions also gets a bit wearisome; competition does not improve the breed, especially when the visiting judges share the club's narrow-minded perspective. And now they've all gone digital...

Competitions are good in camera clubs up to a point. They do help you to iron out common faults found as a beginner. The presentation of you work can be improved by seeing other peoples work. You can also learn B&W film development and use the club's darkroom until you can set up your own. These are just some of the positives in belonging to a club. I do know that there are a lot of faults to be found there also. But then nothing is perfect.

Cheers
Vincent

Baxter Bradford said:

It was hearing a comment similar to this at which the penny dropped for me. Deciding there and then that I have no aspirations to make 'competitive images'. Those that hit the attention like a punch to the solar plexus and after a second or two, similarly leave a vacuum of emotion.

I also found the members incredibly cliquey and so decided to channel my efforts as I liked, shooting scenes which interest me, rather than follow the mindset that has people trying to second guess what some imaginary and arbitrary judge might think and those rules by which (invariably) he, would conjure up a mark.

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QUOTE]Subsequently I have found this topic to be the most emotive topic when on Light and Land tours. Few seem to get much enjoyment from the 'Club/Society'.

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RPS distinctions are another thorny topic liable to get people going! Durdle Door is apparently a great 'Top Left' shot for a panel....[/QUOTE]

Sorry about that Baxter I made a mess of trying to quote you.
But I did check out your site and have come to the conclusion you are into making money from your hobby. This I believe sets you apart from the the majority of camera club members who are there for the enjoyment and sharing of their hobby.
I've no problem with people making money but you must admit you photograph what will sell, while camera club members photograph what will do well for them in competitions.
It's no surprise to me that you do not have a shared vision with camera club members.
Good luck in your photographic career.

Cheers
Vincent

I need to correct you Vincent, you have made presumptions which are simply not true and I feel that I ought to set the record straight.

It actually was the above 'competitive photography' moment when I decided that I didn't really want to please anyone else, such as a judge. I was pleased to have sold a few pictures, albeit very cheaply, prior to this comment.

It gave me the motivation and courage to go out to make pictures which I like rather than trying to second guess what someone else will like. Yes, there have been a couple of occasions where I have tried to do the competent but clicheed shot. They are forever devoid of emotion, so I have stopped.

Thus I am effectively 'amateur' in that I take shots to please myself. I am very appreciative that others like them too and choose to put them on their walls. So I suppose I 'owe' that judge for saying what he did.

Furthermore I am able to enjoy my photography as I choose where to go and what to shoot. As for the sharing, as has been pointed out by others on this thread, different avenues exist.

TEX said:

I've no problem with people making money but you must admit you photograph what will sell.

Cheers
Vincent

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Vincent,

I'm not sure that statement holds completely unless one is referring to generically styled stock photography or "photography" for tabloid newspapers. Some varying degree of style and vision must surely be an attractive feature of a certain portion of both commercial and fine art photography.

To give a practical local example: I could go and photograph generic views of the Norfolk broads, windmills, sunsets, reeds, boats etc, which may very well not reflect my particular take on the subject matter; and therefore why pay attention to that individual photograph. In a different scenario I could go and make photographs that reflect something of my own photographic style, and then leave it up to others as to whether they want to look or not.

Tom.

This is my 2nd year in my local club. I enjoy it overall - the club has been around for 76 years, so is known in the local photographic community. The quality of presenters they get is very good - I'm quite surprised at the variety and quality of local photographers, everything from specialists in food photography to wedding photographers to travel/landscape/"calendar" photographers.

Using film I am in the minority, although I don't get much flak for it - most members I talk to consider it a valid choice, although I get the usual comments sometimes, in particular "Isn't it expensive?" coming from someone who spent $2,000+ on a digital camera, lenses, and Photoshop There are a few of us who shoot film (almost) exclusively, including a couple who shoot 4x5 or larger - they don't show their images much, but I'm trying to encourage them to change that

As with others' comments, competitions are quite subjective - in our club the monthly judging is done by an invited trio - a local pro, a local (usually) non-photographic artist, and a senior member of the club. They always begin by actually saying it's very subjective, so that's how I look at it. It has been interesting to see what others consider important or "good" in photography, and it usually boils down to the basics - eg, how the main subject is framed or highlighted, any distracting elements, everything that should be in focus is actually in focus.

The funny part is, the competitions often highlight the "rules" - eg, rule of thirds, focus, straight horizons, etc - but the pros who present on other nights tend to bend or break those rules an awful lot

And yes, there aren't too many people under 40 (which I am), but I'm OK with that - it's nice to meet people of all age groups with a common interest. There are a couple of other less formal groups in town as well, so I've started hanging out with one of them as well - also an effort to meet other local photographers.

One of the larger clubs in the Birmingham (UK) area has its own darkroom and apparently non-members can make use of it. I've been debating for years about doing this but have always avoided it because firstly a relative is a fairly senior member and I didn't want to have my photos compared to his, and secondly I don't fancy the competition bias which does seem to exist in this club. I think I may just take the plunge and go along to one of the nights the darkroom facilities are available and see. Then I can always decide whether to go again.

mikeg said:

I've always resisted any offers from friends to join camera clubs as I've never liked the idea of competitions, battles etc.

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Ditto. Have attended Shropshire PS in Shrewsbury but never entered any competitions. They do like their acronyms and set great store by success in 'Salons'. The visiting judges are a joke, and I don't like 'competing' in my photographic or musical endeavours. Despite the above, the club's exhibition at Bear Steps has a suprising mix of nice images and they're a really friendly crowd.

We're based in Shropshire around Shrewsbury, so if anyone is based in Shropshire, Powis etc. and is interested then give me a pm.

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Have filled in the form on the Marches group website, sounds my cup of tea. I'll go and see your exhibition at the Gateway too. In case anyone is local there's one about War Graves at The Gateway from 3rd to 21st November.

I was in a club in MA that is doing some great sounding meetings on composition and lighting that I wish I could be there for. They used to put a lot of emphasis on competition, but also had interesting presentations as well as image study nights. I think they're putting a much bigger emphasis on shooting great shots now, not just for competition.
The club I joined here is not quite what I want, but I joined mostly because I hoped I would meet other photographers I could shoot with and who could introduce me to places to shoot. I've gotten some of that out of it, but I'm totally disappointed with how they do competitions and the lack of image study/critique. In the club in MA, they brought in outside judges who gave comments regarding how they arrived at the score. In the club here, club members do the judging and there's very little feedback on the scores. No one wants to say someone's shot sucks, so little is said. It's also very easy to know whose shot is whose. That's their excuse for not doing image study, but I'd bet I can pick out who shot which photo 75% of the time anyway.
I'd guess that about 10% - 15% of this club still shoots film, but they dropped slide competition this year (keeping prints and projected digital). The group in MA may have fewer film shooters, but still competes slides. The ones who give me a hard time about film are the ones who are diehard gearheads anyway and they aren't that bad.