Closing shutter on Zenzanon PE lenses when off camera SOLVED!

I don't seem to find either a solution or discussion on this. mounting / dismounting of lenses on ETRSi (and many others MF SLR cameras) requires body and lens shutter to be in cocked position. On Mamiya RB lenses there is facility to release shutter after lens is off camera.

Is there a way to do it on Zenzanon PE lenses?

You DO NOT want to uncock the shutter of a Bronica lens, it must remain cocked to remount it to the body or you risk permanent destruction of the camera and lens. Mounting an uncocked lens locks the lens to the body resulting in a huge repair bill to separate them.

Rick A said:

You DO NOT want to uncock the shutter of a Bronica lens, it must remain cocked to remount it to the body or you risk permanent destruction of the camera and lens. Mounting an uncocked lens locks the lens to the body resulting in a huge repair bill to separate them.

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According to some sources (The Bronica Manual by William Cheung), if lens is uncocked shutter can be cocked back by simply moving shutter pins back into green dot spot. So that suggests that there is a way to do it. Mamiya figured it is not good practice to leave shutter cocked when not in use, so they made sure it is easy to do on RB lenses. Bronica is not talking about it as far as I can tell, and unlike RB lenses, these are electrically connected for shutter control, so maybe there is a problem providing same. I stil think there is some workaround to fire it when off camera.

I have owned Bronica gear, I seriously do not think it necessary to uncock a shutter for storage, I never had any problems with any of my lenses sitting idle for months at a time. I can see a problem if you forget you uncocked a shutter and tried to mount it. I may be wrong, but the Seiko shutters are electronic and not adversely affected by leaving them cocked during long term storage, unlike my LF lenses which are all mechanical and require occasional exercise so they don't freeze up or get stiff.

Rick A said:

I have owned Bronica gear, I seriously do not think it necessary to uncock a shutter for storage, I never had any problems with any of my lenses sitting idle for months at a time. I can see a problem if you forget you uncocked a shutter and tried to mount it. I may be wrong, but the Seiko shutters are electronic and not adversely affected by leaving them cocked during long term storage, unlike my LF lenses which are all mechanical and require occasional exercise so they don't freeze up or get stiff.

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You may be right I was basically wondering if there was a way, and Mr. Cheung's book drew me to pose this question as he seems to be implying it is possible to have the shutter uncocked when off camera.

The fact that Bronica does not discuss it at all would also suggest you are correct. RB lenses are mechanical, so Mamiya makes actually a point in the manuals about releasing it once off camera.

There was a discussion in the flickr Bronica group about it : https://www.flickr.com/groups/65011843@N00/discuss/72157632048471062/
Never tried this out.

macfred said:

There was a discussion in the flickr Bronica group about it : https://www.flickr.com/groups/65011843@N00/discuss/72157632048471062/
Never tried this out.

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Ha, it does what they said it does. Makes me wonder why Bronica omitted this from instruction book. I never liked any shutter to remain cocked for unknown length of time, so this does it.

So others don't have to go to flckr:

1. small tab hidden on the side of the lens mount (inside a thin slit) needs to pushed in and shutter pins moved away from green dot, shutter closes
2. simple swing back of shutter pins to green dot cock it again, ready for mounting on the body.

For comparison, Mamiya's RB lenses have a silver pin on the back surface of the lens mount, same procedure as above

Thanks.

Just off the top of my head, I believe the green pin you are referring to is a switch that locks the shutter to avoid multi exposures when in single mode, and when switched to multi mode allows the shutter to fire repeatedly. It moves when the camera is fired then is reset when the mirror is reset and film advanced. If it is moved when the lens is off the body it cannot mate in the proper position and won't allow the camera to function, and causes the lens to lock onto the body, requiring a partial dismantling of the camera to remove.

Rick A said:

Just off the top of my head, I believe the green pin you are referring to is a switch that locks the shutter to avoid multi exposures when in single mode, and when switched to multi mode allows the shutter to fire repeatedly. It moves when the camera is fired then is reset when the mirror is reset and film advanced. If it is moved when the lens is off the body it cannot mate in the proper position and won't allow the camera to function, and causes the lens to lock onto the body, requiring a partial dismantling of the camera to remove.

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The pins next to green dot show shutter cocked position, so that needs to be checked before mounting on the body. If they are not at the green dot, simply move the pins manually and they will lock in pace as shutter is cocked the same way with body's engaging pins when mounted.

Further to above, Bronica talks about moving the pins to green dot on dismounted lens before mounting, so clearly they are not unaware such condition is possible. For whatever reason, I see no mentioned of releasing shutter on stored lens.

Witold said:

Ha, it does what they said it does. Makes me wonder why Bronica omitted this from instruction book. I never liked any shutter to remain cocked for unknown length of time, so this does it.

So others don't have to go to flckr:

1. small tab hidden on the side of the lens mount (inside a thin slit) needs to pushed in and shutter pins moved away from green dot, shutter closes
2. simple swing back of shutter pins to green dot cock it again, ready for mounting on the body.

For comparison, Mamiya's RB lenses have a silver pin on the back surface of the lens mount, same procedure as above

Thanks.

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Thanks for this research. Although I just leave the lenses in cocked position when off the body, it's good to know. It makes sense that there is a mechanical release method, because the system can fire the shutter without a battery, but only at the 1/500s maximum speed. Electricity is only needed to hold the shutter open with electromagnets for longer periods when fired.

Just for the record, on a GS-1, you cannot mount an uncocked lens on a cocked body, it will not let you. but if you do get it on (by moving the shutter cock pin a few mm from the uncocked position), tripping the shutter will sync the mechanism (without exposure).

However, you can mount a cocked or uncocked lens, on an uncocked body. In both cases, winding the crank will sync lens & body. Of-course having an uncocked body with no lens is a unusual state for the camera to be in, especially if it has film, you are likely have lost a frame. But the camera has been designed that you will not harm it if you happen to get it into this state.

I do not know if this is true for the ETR or SQ.

itsdoable said:

Just for the record, on a GS-1, you cannot mount an uncocked lens on a cocked body, it will not let you. but if you do get it on (by moving the shutter cock pin a few mm from the uncocked position), tripping the shutter will sync the mechanism (without exposure).

However, you can mount a cocked or uncocked lens, on an uncocked body. In both cases, winding the crank will sync lens & body. Of-course having an uncocked body with no lens is a unusual state for the camera to be in, especially if it has film, you are likely have lost a frame. But the camera has been designed that you will not harm it if you happen to get it into this state.

I do not know if this is true for the ETR or SQ.

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All 3 Bronica systems (ETR, SQ, GS) require shutter in lens and camera body to be in cocked position to mount/dismount lens. That is clear. Any other combination is simply incorrect, even if workarounds do exist. To give better understanding of where I came from on this (which is obvious to many, perhaps not to some):

1. Lens stored with shutter cocked simply means shutter spring is charged and remains so. If a lens is not used for a long time, it remains charged for no reason. Springs in general don't like to be in loaded condition, but does this affect its long term reliability I do not know. HOWEVER

2. Mamiya, also using Seiko shutters, and this applies to both Rb and RZ models, clearly states to unload shutters after lens is off, further provides clear instructions how to do it and the shutter locking pin is clearly in sight on the back of the mounting plate. This made look deeper into Bronica.

3. So far, form all Bronica materials I have access to, there is not a single mention about discharging lens' shutter after it's off. Not a word about shutter possibly being affected by the (totally unnecessary) cocked condition when in storage. An omission? Deliberate silence on the matter, so he chances of someone trying to mend lens to the body in wrong configuration is less? Who knows. At the same time Bronica does say that when lens shutter is not cocked, the pins need to be simply moved manually to the green dot before mounting. In other words, the possibility of such condition is acknowledged, just to me in an incomplete sentence.

4. What adds to this is where the locking pin is located in these lenses, and as it is made from exactly same material and hardly showing through, it appears to me Bronica was playing it safe and did not want users to screw with this clear (and to some, logical) option. Otherwise they would have put a marker above it, so it could be easily located.

So bottom line: Mamiya says uncock the shutter for storage and makes it clear how, Bronica stayed mum on the very same issue.

I have seen comments where one would not buy Bronica system because he did not like cocked shutter to be left such when not in use.

I wonder, if there is anyone with direct knowledge of Bronica manufacturing (no hearsay) to shed some light on why this was so. I'm happy it was easier than I thought

Have had 3 Etr(s)(i) models for over 15 years and always unlock the lenses , with what has become a warehouse of cameras , some lenses aren't used for a year or more . Although they are electrical shutters , one should also know that they will fire at 1/500 without a battery ,and if one uncocks the lens and recocks it you'll notice considerable spring tension when recocking the lens . Untensioned springs seldom age poorly , and to address another point , it's borderline impossible to remount an unlocked lens on an Etr (with the Etr body cocked ). Peter

moto-uno said:

Have had 3 Etr(s)(i) models for over 15 years and always unlock the lenses , with what has become a warehouse of cameras , some lenses aren't used for a year or more . Although they are electrical shutters , one should also know that they will fire at 1/500 without a battery ,and if one uncocks the lens and recocks it you'll notice considerable spring tension when recocking the lens . Untensioned springs seldom age poorly , and to address another point , it's borderline impossible to remount an unlocked lens on an Etr (with the Etr body cocked ). Peter

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I agree when body/lens are not cocked it takes a drunker sailor to force them together or apart. In other words if they don't go together / apart nicely, don't try too hard as something is not right.