Closer decision to my first MF rig.

rayonline_nz · Jun 19, 2011

I have been shooting film and digital Nikons - particularly with slide film. Let's ignore the projection part ;-) Wait to it happens.

So I have seen the market prices of a Hasselblad 500C/M and they do cost at least 2x as much as other vendors, althou a newer Pentax 67ii outfit with a normal lens fetches $1,800US

So pricewise Hasselblad might not be possible. For the money of one Hasselblad outfit, I could get a different MF outfit as well as a LF outfit.

So ...

For those who have used the older Pentax 67 (with MLU), how does the size and weight compare to a Hasselblad 500C/M or a Bronica SQ? My research shows the Bronica weighs 1.5kg with the Haselblad at 1.55kg. Physically they seem very similar too.

What about the Pentax 67? On paper it appears it weighs 1.76kg (the outfit). Is the Pentax physically about the same size as a Hasselblad/Bronica SQ? PS. I know that the Pentax can be downgraded to a WLF which sheds 200-300g of weight. Or is the Pentax about the same size as the Blad/Bronica not including the film back/lens?

Main use is outdoor landscape photography and travel photography so I would be walking a bit and using public transportation.

Thanks.

Jeff Kubach · Jun 20, 2011

Have you consider used? Maybe from places like KEH.

Jeff

polyglot · Jun 20, 2011

If you want 6x6 and not to pay for a 'blad, SQ seems like a good idea. I've held one for a minute and poked at it (thanks hoffy) but not used it. Looks modern and decently made.

I use an RZ67 myself. It's about 3x the size of the SQ if not larger, but you get notably bigger negs from it, particularly if you want rectangular (55x55 vs 55x69). I personally don't find it a problem to carry an RZ and 3 lenses in a backpack for 10 hours of walking a day but nearly any other system would be smaller. Some 4x5 systems are smaller than an RZ, though you don't get the convenience & speed of a rollfilm SLR.

If you get a P67, don't get one without MLU. A P67 is notably large compared to a 6x6 system and a different shape. I'd prefer a leaf-shutter camera myself, too, though some of the Takumars are very very nice.

Have a look at the Mamiya 6 and 7 too. Rangefinders (problematic for some purposes) but very compact for 6x7 and has most-excellent wideangle optics - makes them quite appropriate for outdoor/travel.

I would never buy any of this new, there's just so much stuff available in excellent condition for 10% of the new price that there's no point buying new.

F/1.4 · Jun 20, 2011

Yeah don't buy new. I got a Mamiya 645 AFD for $900 vs the $3500 they were new.

2F/2F · Jun 20, 2011

The Bronica SQ is a Hasselblad clone. They are nearly the same in size, and in everything else but price.

The Pentax 67, OTOH, is a beast. It also is not as versatile as the SQ and Hasselblad. No exchangeable magazines and no leaf shutter unless you get certain lenses.

Lenses will be great in all three systems.

rayonline_nz · Jun 20, 2011

Could someone comment further on the Pentax? Is the Blad outfit with a normal lens the same size to a Pentax with a normal lens? Meaning - width, height and depth. Or ... is it more that the depth is more skinnier on the Pentax other than the lens sticking out?

I have looked at Keh.com. Hasselblad cost $1100US for a outfit with a normal lens. A older P67, Bronica 6x6 or 6x7 or the Mamiya all cost $400-500US for the equivlanet outfit. Hasselblad lenses are more like $400US or a few at $1,000US, with keh's bargain rating. Others were like $200US each with 1 or 2 at $400US (Pentax).

Although; a Pentax 67ii outfit cost $1,800US and the Mamiya 6/7 $1,500US.

I won't need magazines as I only shoot Velvia 50. Could be useful for family portraiture but I rarely shoot that so I don't mind the low flash sync. I also want to avoid 645 and after further thinking I think the square format might not suit me, as I am more into the wide landscape vistas. So maybe a P67 or a GS-1. I toyed with a Fuji 6x7/6x9 RF but I think maybe not Because I am into my scapes only, I have avoided the more advanced cameras like 645AF or AFD et al ....

Ian David · Jun 20, 2011

Hi - I am unable to compare it to the Pentax, but FYI my blad with a modern 80 lens weighs 1.57kg (with lenscap on and film loaded!). Dimensions are 200mm long, 114 wide, 110 high, again including lens cap, winding crank, etc.

Ian

thegman · Jun 20, 2011

Definitely consider Mamiya 7, they're not even crazy expensive brand new from places like DigitalRev.

I used to have one, but sold it for a Hasselblad, sometimes I wonder if that was the right choice, as it was a superb camera capable of amazing results. I didn't like the modern build, as I like chrome/leather etc. but if you're not as shallow as me, you'll like the Mamiya.

But also get an idea of Hasselblad prices, as if you're OK with the weight, and that they're really tripod cameras (In my opinion), they are killer cameras.

MDAZARUDEEN · Jun 20, 2011

i want service manual for nikon lens

Joachim_I · Jun 20, 2011

The Pentax will be bigger and heavier than the Hasselblad. But you also get a bigger negative. I very much prefer the 6x7 format for landscape photography. The aspect ratio of 6x7 (4:5.09) is very similar to 4x5 (4:5) and 8x10 (4:5:05). Based on my field experience, the P67 is much more popular among landscape photographers than the Hasselbald (I know there are famous exceptions including Christopher Burkett). Also bear in mind that the P67 handles very well with its wooden grip.

rayonline_nz · Jun 20, 2011

Thanks. I will dig for some brochures and see the dimensions of the P67 body alone.

I cannot really accept rangefinders b/c I use graduated filters. Althou Lee does have a special holder "Lee RF75" I think it would be cumbersome, plus it supports only medium size lenses. If I could one of my options might be a Fuji 6x9 RF!

Just hoping that the 1.7kg'ish of the P67 incl the 105mm. If not it's an extra 750g

coigach · Jun 20, 2011

You'll definitely need Mirror Lock-up on the Pentax 67.

I use a P67II body and the shake and thwack of the big shutter makes MLU an essential in my opinion. The P67II has MLU and some of the later P67's I think, but you need to do a bit of research on that to confirm.

2F/2F · Jun 20, 2011

The MLU will eliminate mirror vibration, but isn't the main source of the vibration of the P67 it's large FP shutter?

Sirius Glass · Jun 20, 2011

I could push the Hasselblad which I am very happy with, but buy what feels good in your hand and what you can afford.

Because of the Hasselblad prices, I had to spread out the lenses much longer than I would have liked.

Choose what is best for you.

Steve

BobD · Jun 20, 2011

rayonline_nz said:
Could someone comment further on the Pentax? Is the Blad outfit with a normal lens the same size to a Pentax with a normal lens? Meaning - width, height and depth. Or ... is it more that the depth is more skinnier on the Pentax other than the lens sticking out?

It's hard to answer because their shapes are so different. The Hassy is smaller,
yes, and so are its lenses but it also provides a smaller film format than the
Pentax. I have a P67 and I do use it hand held at times. It's ergonomics are just
like an overgrown 35mm SLR. With the 90mm lens (the smallest for that camera)
I feel the Pentax is quite handy for 6x7 SLR.

I love my Pentax 67 and don't care about the slow flash sync issue because I
don't use flash and I don't care about the lack of film backs because I don't
do the type of shooting that requires them. I just love that big fat 6x7 negative.

rayonline_nz · Jun 21, 2011

Thanks, I may look at the RFs, either the Fuji's or Mamiya 7 thou the lenses can be pricey.

I may of underestimated the P67 that I need a heavy'ish tripod.

coigach · Jun 21, 2011

rayonline_nz said:
I cannot really accept rangefinders b/c I use graduated filters. Althou Lee does have a special holder "Lee RF75" I think it would be cumbersome, plus it supports only medium size lenses. If I could one of my options might be a Fuji 6x9 RF!

I use Grad filters all the time with rangefinders - my Contax G, Mamiya 7 and Fotoman 617 panoramic (not a rangefinder but you use an external viewfinder rather than TTL so it's the same in practice for using grads). It's an often-told myth that you can't use them with rangefinders.

It's not quite as convenient as using grads with an non-rangefinder but it's accurate and easy enough. And, even though I've got both the standard Lee and the RF75 holders, I use both on the rangefinders.

coigach · Jun 21, 2011

2F/2F said:
The MLU will eliminate mirror vibration, but isn't the main source of the vibration of the P67 it's large FP shutter?

I use my P67II for landscape's. Mounted on a tripod, using MLU and cable release I've done many long exposures (several minutes +) and always had tack sharp images. In this context, the big FP shutter had no -ve effect.

michaelbsc · Jun 21, 2011

coigach said:
2F/2F said:

The MLU will eliminate mirror vibration, but isn't the main source of the vibration of the P67 it's large FP shutter?

Click to expand...

I use my P67II for landscape's. Mounted on a tripod, using MLU and cable release I've done many long exposures (several minutes +) and always had tack sharp images. In this context, the big FP shutter had no -ve effect.

Very long exposure means the period of vibration, either from the mirror or the curtain, is small compared to the exposure. I find vibration is an issue when exposure is .5 to 1.0 second.

jeffreyg · Jun 21, 2011

I had and used a Bronica S2A for 19 years and have been using Hasselblad for over 20 years now. I agree with Steve - buy what you can afford and are comfortable with. Make sure it is mechanically sound and if purchasing from a dealer that they are reliable and have a return policy. Upon receipt test it thoroughly with film.

The camera may capture the picture but it's the photographer that makes the picture.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

sdotkling · Jun 21, 2011

Never had a Pentax 6x7, but I did pick up this tidbit from my favorite camera repair guys: Vogue photog Steven Meisel owns 60 --that's SIXTY--Pentax 6x7's, because at any one time 30 are in the shop.

Better know a repair guy pretty well if you're planning on using one!

polyglot · Jun 21, 2011

sdotkling said:
Never had a Pentax 6x7, but I did pick up this tidbit from my favorite camera repair guys: Vogue photog Steven Meisel owns 60 --that's SIXTY--Pentax 6x7's, because at any one time 30 are in the shop.

Better know a repair guy pretty well if you're planning on using one!

Is he beating his models into shape with them!?

SafetyBob · Jun 23, 2011

You could blow the budget with a Hassy or you could use that cash for some TLR's, the Mamiya 645 is cheap enough......you will want to play with one of those, an RB and/or a press camera too. That should cover all the formats and think of the fun you will have trying to use all of them.

I wouldn't think of it as a purchase.....think of it as your FIRST medium format purchase.....of many.

Bob E.

coigach · Jun 23, 2011

polyglot said:
Is he beating his models into shape with them!?

Strewth - maybe he's playng football with his cameras...!

I've used my P67II for landscape photography 10+ years, it's been carried up mountains, used in blizzards, accidently dropped in bogs etc and has always worked fine. They're pretty reliable workhorses in my opinion...

Sirius Glass · Jun 23, 2011

SafetyBob said:
You could blow the budget with a Hassy or you could use that cash for some TLR's, the Mamiya 645 is cheap enough......you will want to play with one of those, an RB and/or a press camera too. That should cover all the formats and think of the fun you will have trying to use all of them.

I wouldn't think of it as a purchase.....think of it as your FIRST medium format purchase.....of many.

Bob E.

OR you can buy the Hasselblad and expand the time between buying more lenses like I did. Beside the only advantage to buying Rollei TRLs is that you can have 'photo bling' by walking down the street with a wide angle Rollei, a 80mm Rollei, and a telephoto Rollei around your neck [Assuming you could stand up with all the weight.].

Steve

Closer decision to my first MF rig.

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