Clear Nail Polish based Wet Plate Photography

BySumbergsStache · Apr 17, 2016

Reading about collodion and it's properties remind me a lot of clear nail polish. What if you were to dillute nail polish with some ethyl acetate and substitute it in the standard collodion recipe....

Photo Engineer · Apr 18, 2016

Why don't you try it and tell us how it is??

PE

removed account4 · Apr 18, 2016

was told by a company that
was going to start manufacturing nail polish that
nail polish IS collodion ( maybe flexible collodion that has oils in it ).
they ended up not botering because of all the OSHA stuff, required
like massive ventilation /fume hood systems that they didn't want to deal with.
its probably cheaper to buy a quart of collodion from an online supplier than a case of clear nail polish bottles
besides, if it IS flexible collodion you can't use it because of the oils ...

Jim Noel · Apr 18, 2016

Collodion is flexible. Don't forget it was first used to seal wounds during the War Between the States. MY grandmother used it for the same purpose.

mdarnton · Apr 18, 2016

If you want flexible, maybe these folks will sell by the pint:
http://www.newskinproducts.com/liquid-bandages/

removed account4 · Apr 18, 2016

the flexible stuff is usually sold with camphor in it
it's the non flexible that is used by wet platters ...
I used to get quarts of the flexible stuff at my
local pharmacy, I asked about 6 years ago
they don't sell it anymore ...

BySumbergsStache · Apr 18, 2016

Aright PE, I'll take you up on your challenge. This is for my AP Chem class final project. My official project is creating a traditional wet plate tintype of my class, but I'll make up a batch of the nail polish and see if that works too. If it is flexible collodion, is there a way of removing the oils and making it into "non-flexible?"

The reason I thought of this is because collodion is pretty expensive for a poor teenager. But on second thought, nail polish might be more expensive by the liter! ...

Has there been any other work on collodion alternatives? I was thinking perhaps dextrin, starch, gelatin, or sweet rice. On that note, is there a good book that explains the chemical theory behind collodion wet plate? From what I understand it's a pretty standard double replacement with the silver and the halides. Is there a purpose to the collodion beyond acting as a medium for the reaction to occur; what properties does it have that make it suitable?

Photo Engineer · Apr 19, 2016

All silver halides except fluorides and astatinides are light sensitive in a way that we can use them. All photographic systems are spins on that one characteristic. There are many texts out there on alternative processes and many references on the internet. A world class expert is Mark Osterman at George Eastman House. They have many references there and might help you. I am not the one to help on alternate photo systems, just silver halide in gelatin for me.

IDK if flexible collodion or any nail polish will work and that is why I posted my original comment. I am only familiar with classic collodion and that, only by watching Mark make them.

Sorry.

PE

Fr. Mark · Apr 19, 2016

Halides in Gelatin is much less costly, toxic, and flammable and has the advantage you don't need a nearby darkroom. See Denise Ross and thelightfarm.com for tons and tons of practical information. +1 for AP chemistry.

Photo Engineer · Apr 19, 2016

Well, there are several formulas here in the dedicated forum, and my book and DVDs go into a lot more detail. Bob Shanebrook has also written an excellent book on "How Kodak Makes Film" and both of us are writing Volume 2 to our series.

PE

BySumbergsStache · Apr 19, 2016

Mark - would a gelatin based tintype work just the same as a collodion tintype?

PE - I will have to visit the George Eastman house sometime. I watched their "history of film" series of videos on YouTube, it was very good.

removed account4 · Apr 19, 2016

BySumbergsStache said:
Mark - would a gelatin based tintype work just the same as a collodion tintype?

yes they will work exactly the same except the developer is proprietary.

you coat the metal plate the same, except you don't soak it in a silver bath, its IN the emulsion
which is a silver nitrate, maybe iodide maybe bromide maybe chloride adn gelatin emulsion.
you don't need it to be wet when you use it, it is dry.
you fix it in normal fixer with hardener.
the fixer ( KCn ) isn't toxic, the media ( collodion ) isn't highly flammable/gives off toxic gas if it ignites.
the only downside is that the developer is proprietary so you have to buy it from the people that make it.
you can make your own emulsion ( lightfarm reference ) or buy a bottle of it from rockland colloid .

not sure where you are located but you might look at the rockland colloid website to learn more about their products
and if they are available where you are.
i've been making these tintypes for a few years now and coating with emulsion various things ( paper, glass and metal ) since 1986 ..
its fun
and dont' believe the hype that wet platters might suggest that dry plate tintypes aren't authentic, it is like daguerreotype users claiming wet plate
isn't authentic because it replaced daguerreotypes.
to see work done with dry plate tintypes you can google dry plate tintype or modern tintype or dry plate ferrotype you might find some ...

good luck !
john

ps you can cut a 4x5 plate in 1/4ers and put them in a 35mm camera to do tests to make sure everything is right
before you spend effort and $$ on a whole plate. with wet plate the wet is corrosive and you can't do that in a 35mm camera.

BySumbergsStache · Apr 20, 2016

How is the developer proprietary? Isn't the silver gelatin emulsion process over a hundred years old?

removed account4 · Apr 20, 2016

the developer for silver gelatin ferrotypes/tintypes is proprietary ...
the process was brought back from the dead / revived by rockland colloid
(website link: http://rockaloid.com/tintypes )
many years ago ... they worked with another person to create a developer
that developed, that worked the same way the ferrotype developers
did in the 1870s-1920s. it develops fogs and bleaches the image so
when it appears on the black metal, it looks like a positive.
http://jorj.org/blog/?p=3018
he has come up with a workaround recipe for the developer,
it is similar to guy brown's developer
https://www.flickr.com/photos/guyjbrown/8483609824/in/pool-liquidlight

you might have to futz with it if you
don't want to buy the real-thing from rockland.

DREW WILEY · Apr 20, 2016

Hmmm. Do you want to go fast, like blowing yourself up; or go slow with cancer? Or maybe somebody will just smell something and tell the police
they think there's a meth lab in the neighborhood. Do you realize that nail polish is the single largest cumulative source of hazardous chemical waste
in American landfills? (most E-waste is illegally exported). The damn stuff is so nasty that it's illegal to sell it in any quantity in a paint or art store.
I talked to one ambulance medic who had to revive six women within one month in local nail polish parlors.

Fr. Mark · Apr 20, 2016

I was thinking the OP would buy either Knox plain gelatin or photo quality gelatin at a local store and silver nitrate (wear gloves and goggles) and precipitate AgCl or AgBr etc in the gelatin and coat that on glass. Pretty much any B\W developer ought to work. Rodinal was around in the early glass plate era. There are also recipes for developers all over the Internet. See thelightfarm.com for emulsion making.

Fr. Mark · Apr 20, 2016

The emulsion will be blue/UV sensitive only so you can work under safelights.

BySumbergsStache · Apr 23, 2016

jnanian said:
the developer for silver gelatin ferrotypes/tintypes is proprietary ...
the process was brought back from the dead / revived by rockland colloid
(website link: http://rockaloid.com/tintypes )
many years ago ... they worked with another person to create a developer
that developed, that worked the same way the ferrotype developers
did in the 1870s-1920s. it develops fogs and bleaches the image so
when it appears on the black metal, it looks like a positive.
.

Sorry, I'm still confused, please humor me. I don't understand why the developer is not common knowledge if it's based on a process that's 100 years old. Are you saying that in order to make a silver gelatin based tintype, the standard collodion developer doesn't work, and thus a new type of developer called "liquid light" was invented by the Rockaloid group?

I think I'm going to just make a standard collodion tintype first. I bought the Rockland dry plate tintype parlour kit so I could practice, and I'm going to mix up the Poe Boy collodion this week so it has a couple weeks to mature.

removed account4 · Apr 23, 2016

standard tintype developer for wet collodion tintypes is a completely different developer than
the developer needed for dry plate tintypes. one will not work for the other.
they manufacture and sell "liquid light" it's like the emulson in your kit,
its silver gelatin emulsion in a bottle and you can put it on anything -
glass, paper, eggs, metal ( they have a gallery of imags made with it on their site ).
in the olden days, the reversal developer might
have had ammonia and sulfuric acid or something kind of crazy in it, the rockland stuff is pretty benign.
you can use regular developer
too ( like dekto 1:2 ), but, you will get a negative, not a positive

your tintype kit will have a small bottle of developer in it.
if their developer is darker than "light straw" call rockland colloid ( or write ) they will send you a bottle that is FRESH.
leave the developer in an open tray like they say. it will smell like ammonia a little bit, but it needs
to "ripen". or it won't work as well

personally, i don't do wet plate work, dry plate tintypes are just as fun.
the longer explanation: Dead Link Removed )

good luck with your adventure !

pdeeh · Apr 23, 2016

john your blog page is throwing all sorts of certificate errors, you might want to have a word with your hosting people

removed account4 · Apr 23, 2016

thanks pdeeh, i just sent an email to them
weird, that certificate thing didn't appear yesterday ...
- john

Clear Nail Polish based Wet Plate Photography

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