Clear 600ML / 1200ML PET storage bottles, do these exist?

What About Bob · Dec 29, 2023

I couldn't find anything at any of the online photography stores that I went to. What I could find elsewhere when using the above title as a search term were jars for keeping food items in. Many have aluminum lids and I do not need 24, 50 or 200 of them. Also I did find 600ML bottles but they were not clear, had no rating and I do not need 33 of them.

The reason why I am looking into 600ML or 1200ML storage bottles is because today I received something that I have never used before and decided I wanted to give it a shot. I purchased an Adorama compact plastic developing tank, which is an AP compact tank, under the Adorama name. I have never used a plastic tank with reels before, in my 31 years of knowledge with stainless steel so I guess I could be known as the plastic virgin.

I have been spending my afternoon practicing with this tank; testing it out by filling, agitating, emptying and all that good stuff. I then realized I blew chunks when it came upon me that plastic tanks require more liquid than stainless tanks. I had read up on these type of tanks in the past but it didn't click with me until today when I got to the measuring stage. This tank requires 590ML of liquid for a 120 roll. I measured out a 590ML volume of plain old water and poured it in with the included reel set to 120 film size. The water level just about touched the top of the reel. I added an extra 10ML of water and the level just went over the the top of the reel. Still I think a little more water would have taken some of the edge off that I was experiencing. Don't know why but I felt like even 600ML wasn't enough.

I like this plastic tank. It fills and empties swiftly and I didn't notice any leakage. I really like the adjustability of the reels for different film formats.

I have only 1 liter bottles. If I get a half gallon bottle to store 1200ML of stock solution then there will be more of an air space. Same deal if I only mix up for 600ML stock solution and put that into a 1 liter bottle, more air space.

I will be getting a 2000ML mixing graduate just so that I can mix for the 1200ML volume. I will be going the Amazon route for the graduate since it is way cheaper than what I have seen it in photo stores. The graduate in question is of polypropylene and has a good rating.

I don't know. Am I over thinking all of this?

MattKing · Dec 29, 2023

When you put the film in, the fluid will rise a bit higher.
I re-use most of my chemicals, so 1 litre or 2 litre containers work for me. I do have 650ml measuring graduates that work perfectly with the size of tank you are using - which I use sometimes as well.
What developer are you intending to use? Within reason and in most cases, developer is the only one to worry about with respect to half filled containers.

mshchem · Dec 29, 2023

What About Bob said:
I couldn't find anything at any of the online photography stores that I went to. What I could find elsewhere when using the above title as a search term were jars for keeping food items in. Many have aluminum lids and I do not need 24, 50 or 200 of them. Also I did find 600ML bottles but they were not clear, had no rating and I do not need 33 of them.

The reason why I am looking into 600ML or 1200ML storage bottles is because today I received something that I have never used before and decided I wanted to give it a shot. I purchased an Adorama compact plastic developing tank, which is an AP compact tank, under the Adorama name. I have never used a plastic tank with reels before, in my 31 years of knowledge with stainless steel so I guess I could be known as the plastic virgin.

I have been spending my afternoon practicing with this tank; testing it out by filling, agitating, emptying and all that good stuff. I then realized I blew chunks when it came upon me that plastic tanks require more liquid than stainless tanks. I had read up on these type of tanks in the past but it didn't click with me until today when I got to the measuring stage. This tank requires 590ML of liquid for a 120 roll. I measured out a 590ML volume of plain old water and poured it in with the included reel set to 120 film size. The water level just about touched the top of the reel. I added an extra 10ML of water and the level just went over the the top of the reel. Still I think a little more water would have taken some of the edge off that I was experiencing. Don't know why but I felt like even 600ML wasn't enough.

I like this plastic tank. It fills and empties swiftly and I didn't notice any leakage. I really like the adjustability of the reels for different film formats.

I have only 1 liter bottles. If I get a half gallon bottle to store 1200ML of stock solution then there will be more of an air space. Same deal if I only mix up for 600ML stock solution and put that into a 1 liter bottle, more air space.

I will be getting a 2000ML mixing graduate just so that I can mix for the 1200ML volume. I will be going the Amazon route for the graduate since it is way cheaper than what I have seen it in photo stores. The graduate in question is of polypropylene and has a good rating.

I don't know. Am I over thinking all of this?

You didn't hear this from me . In the US Soda pop bottles, like Pepsi etc, 20 US fluid ounces (591mL but hold a bit more than 600mL)are PET, low gas permeability, and can be had for one thin dime. I've used these for working solutions for E-6, Black and white, everything. No better containers out there.
Now having said this, I remove labels and don't use green Mountain Dew bottles or Coke shaped bottles, nothing that resembles a tasty drink. Everything's stored out of view and I don't have kiddos running around. Besides what is under kitchen sinks or G_d forbid gasoline for the lawn mower is more dangerous than XTOL.

mshchem · Dec 29, 2023

Replenish your solutions keep a one liter "tank" (tank being what is your replenished solution storage bottle) Still soda bottles come in a bunch of sizes.
Dig them out of someone's bin, save the oceans!

What About Bob · Dec 29, 2023

MattKing said:
When you put the film in, the fluid will rise a bit higher.
I re-use most of my chemicals, so 1 litre or 2 litre containers work for me. I do have 650ml measuring graduates that work perfectly with the size of tank you are using - which I use sometimes as well.
What developer are you intending to use? Within reason and in most cases, developer is the only one to worry about with respect to half filled containers.

I haven't mixed powdered chemicals since the 90s so I will be returning to that. Recently I ordered some Metol and Sulfite and thought to make a developer that I have heard about but haven't tried yet. That developer would be D23. This will also be the first time mixing my own dry chemistry.

Thanks MattKing

What About Bob · Dec 29, 2023

mshchem said:
You didn't hear this from me . In the US Soda pop bottles, like Pepsi etc, 20 US fluid ounces (591mL but hold a bit more than 600mL)are PET, low gas permeability, and can be had for one thin dime. I've used these for working solutions for E-6, Black and white, everything. No better containers out there.
Now having said this, I remove labels and don't use green Mountain Dew bottles or Coke shaped bottles, nothing that resembles a tasty drink. Everything's stored out of view and I don't have kiddos running around. Besides what is under kitchen sinks or G_d forbid gasoline for the lawn mower is more dangerous than XTOL.

No worries. Your secret is safe with me. I won't tell a soul.

What About Bob · Dec 29, 2023

mshchem said:
Replenish your solutions keep a one liter "tank" (tank being what is your replenished solution storage bottle) Still soda bottles come in a bunch of sizes.
Dig them out of someone's bin, save the oceans!

For D23 there would be one more chemical needed for the replenishment. Sodium Metaborate.

Thanks mshchem

koraks · Dec 30, 2023

What About Bob said:
Am I over thinking all of this?

As far as I'm concerned, yes. Like @mshchem says, just use a bigger bottle. Need 600ml, but can only get 1000ml bottle? Then use the 1 liter bottle and mix 1 liter of chemistry so the bottle is full. You're using the bottle because you're apparently saving the chemistry, so might as well mix a little extra.
Btw, the standard size for a wine bottle is 750ml. The ones with a screw cap seal pretty decently.

bdial · Dec 30, 2023

Jobo had 600 ml bottles, and are known to keep stuff well. I’m not sure if the same bottles are still available though, ebay might be a source.
For new stuff, US Plastic is a good source, they have a large variety for keeping anything from potable water to solvents, in lots of sizes.

bernard_L · Dec 30, 2023

What About Bob said:
The water level just about touched the top of the reel. I added an extra 10ML of water and the level just went over the the top of the reel. Still I think a little more water would have taken some of the edge off that I was experiencing. Don't know why but I felt like even 600ML wasn't enough.

You may need more than the nominal volume for another reason. My experience as follows. I use since many years Paterson tanks and reels, very similar to AP. Since a few years, maybe tied with a change of water distribution, I have bubble marks (lesser density spots) near the top of the 120 negatives. Tried a couple of drops of photoflo, to no avail. What works is to increase from the Paterson-prescribed 500ml to 550mL. Other might not see that problem, depending on the quality of their tap water.

Sharktooth · Dec 30, 2023

mshchem said:
You didn't hear this from me . In the US Soda pop bottles, like Pepsi etc, 20 US fluid ounces (591mL but hold a bit more than 600mL)are PET, low gas permeability, and can be had for one thin dime. I've used these for working solutions for E-6, Black and white, everything. No better containers out there.
Now having said this, I remove labels and don't use green Mountain Dew bottles or Coke shaped bottles, nothing that resembles a tasty drink. Everything's stored out of view and I don't have kiddos running around. Besides what is under kitchen sinks or G_d forbid gasoline for the lawn mower is more dangerous than XTOL.

Available FREE from recycling bins worldwide!

Strong, gas tight, easily removable wrapper labels, available in multiple sizes (500ml, 600ml, 750ml, 1L, 2L etc), squeezable to remove excess air volume, light weight, clear, resistant to many chemicals. .... and, oh yeah, FREE!

Sharktooth · Dec 30, 2023

Forgot impact resistant and shatterproof, and probably others.

mshchem · Dec 30, 2023

Sharktooth said:
Available FREE from recycling bins worldwide!

Strong, gas tight, easily removable wrapper labels, available in multiple sizes (500ml, 600ml, 750ml, 1L, 2L etc), squeezable to remove excess air volume, light weight, clear, resistant to many chemicals. .... and, oh yeah, FREE!

I "lost" a bottle of XTOL stock solution in a move. I found it with some cleaning supplies, in a 20 oz soda bottle, it was 11 years old, had a slight straw color. I decided I will never get another chance to try. It worked, I increased the time but it worked. I was shocked to say the least.

mshchem · Dec 30, 2023

Sharktooth said:
Forgot impact resistant and shatterproof, and probably others.

One very important thing., PET soda bottles ARE post consumer recycled. Made into floor coverings etc, almost all other plastic isn't. So even after storing your XTOL or rapid fix one could in theory recycle the little things.

Sharktooth · Dec 30, 2023

mshchem said:
I "lost" a bottle of XTOL stock solution in a move. I found it with some cleaning supplies, in a 20 oz soda bottle, it was 11 years old, had a slight straw color. I decided I will never get another chance to try. It worked, I increased the time but it worked. I was shocked to say the least.

Wow! That's great news. I'm on my second batch of XTOL in pop bottles. I mix up a 5 litre pack, and then separate it into several 600 to 750 ml bottles. The current batch is dated Nov 2021, and I was getting worried that 2 years would be pushing it. I used some earlier this month, but did a test first with a a piece of film leader. It seemed to be fine, so I developed a couple of rolls. No problemo. I usually use XTOL diluted 1:1 or 1:3, so it lasts forever with the amount of B&W I do. With those dilutions, I don't use a full bottle, so I squeeze out the air and recap the bottle. These PET bottles are perfect for typical darkroom chemistry, and, of course, THEY'RE FRIGGIN' FREE!!!!!!

What About Bob · Dec 30, 2023

bernard_L said:
You may need more than the nominal volume for another reason. My experience as follows. I use since many years Paterson tanks and reels, very similar to AP. Since a few years, maybe tied with a change of water distribution, I have bubble marks (lesser density spots) near the top of the 120 negatives. Tried a couple of drops of photoflo, to no avail. What works is to increase from the Paterson-prescribed 500ml to 550mL. Other might not see that problem, depending on the quality of their tap water.

Interesting: So the Paterson tank takes less amount of solution than the AP tank? The AP tank I have prescribes 590.

I went for 660ML and this felt like comfortable amount with visual coverage and while inverting the tank the motion felt comfortable. This amount should work out good with D23 at 1:1, mixing 330ML of developer and 330 of water. This will give three rolls of 120 from a liter of stock solution. I am thinking of just using D23 one-shot since I will not be doing as much film developing at this time until I gain more film and paper supply and also for development consistency. Keeping solutions for a long time might be wasteful so this is where my thought was for one-shot development.

Have to budget for now. I ordered some rolls of Kentmere 100 and will be trying out some paper called "Multitone RC". Costs only $63 for a 100 pack of 8X10. Conservative mode engaged. Crossing fingers.

What About Bob · Dec 30, 2023

mshchem said:
I "lost" a bottle of XTOL stock solution in a move. I found it with some cleaning supplies, in a 20 oz soda bottle, it was 11 years old, had a slight straw color. I decided I will never get another chance to try. It worked, I increased the time but it worked. I was shocked to say the least.

Wow! That is amazing.

What About Bob · Dec 30, 2023

bdial said:
Jobo had 600 ml bottles, and are known to keep stuff well. I’m not sure if the same bottles are still available though, ebay might be a source.
For new stuff, US Plastic is a good source, they have a large variety for keeping anything from potable water to solvents, in lots of sizes.

B&H is out of stock of those Jobo bottles but Freestyle has some, low stock.. US Plastics is a keeper.

mshchem · Dec 30, 2023

Sharktooth said:
Wow! That's great news. I'm on my second batch of XTOL in pop bottles. I mix up a 5 litre pack, and then separate it into several 600 to 750 ml bottles. The current batch is dated Nov 2021, and I was getting worried that 2 years would be pushing it. I used some earlier this month, but did a test first with a a piece of film leader. It seemed to be fine, so I developed a couple of rolls. No problemo. I usually use XTOL diluted 1:1 or 1:3, so it lasts forever with the amount of B&W I do. With those dilutions, I don't use a full bottle, so I squeeze out the air and recap the bottle. These PET bottles are perfect for typical darkroom chemistry, and, of course, THEY'RE FRIGGIN' FREE!!!!!!

I use RO water that I let sit for days to let the air come out of solution. I don't recommend long term storage, but it makes a good recollection

MattKing · Dec 30, 2023

bernard_L said:
hat works is to increase from the Paterson-prescribed 500ml to 550mL.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those the old, pre 1989 Paterson System IV tanks, not the current Super System IV tanks they have been making for the last ~35 years?

bernard_L · Dec 31, 2023

MattKing said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those the old, pre 1989 Paterson System IV tanks, not the current Super System IV tanks they have been making for the last ~35 years?

I definitely bought a Paterson tank for the last time in 1983.

bernard_L · Dec 31, 2023

What About Bob said:
Interesting: So the Paterson tank takes less amount of solution than the AP tank? The AP tank I have prescribes 590.

I went for 660ML and this felt like comfortable amount with visual coverage and while inverting the tank the motion felt comfortable. This amount should work out good with D23 at 1:1, mixing 330ML of developer and 330 of water. This will give three rolls of 120 from a liter of stock solution. I am thinking of just using D23 one-shot since I will not be doing as much film developing at this time until I gain more film and paper supply and also for development consistency. Keeping solutions for a long time might be wasteful so this is where my thought was for one-shot development.

Re: volume of developer. I've had bubble marks even though the spiral was completely submerged at the nominal volume. Inspect carefully the edge of the 120 film that was on the upper side, preferably on an expanded-contrast scan. You might well be OK, as I've been for many years.

D23 at 1:1. Be aware that is a compensating combination. May or may not suit certain light conditions and your taste. I used it to my satisfaction for pictures of an industrial hall with a view of the outside through windows.

DWThomas · Dec 31, 2023

At least here in the US, a lot of fruit juices, punch, iced tea and similar non-carbonated drinks come in PET bottles with a wider mouth and broader, flatter (more stable) bottom than soda bottles which I find useful.

What About Bob · Dec 31, 2023

Joe's iced tea bottles are 20oz. These are glass.

MattKing · Dec 31, 2023

What About Bob said:
Joe's iced tea bottles are 20oz. These are glass.

The quality of the caps and their method of sealing is as or more important than the material the bottle is made of.
When you are considering container volumes, it is worthwhile remembering that your intention may be to fill the containers closer to their "brim" - which may be slightly more than with their original use.

Clear 600ML / 1200ML PET storage bottles, do these exist?

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