Clayton F76+ and Arista Premium Liquid developer

JW PHOTO · Dec 12, 2013

Well, I just took the plunge! Not a very deep one, but a plunge never the less. I just order some Arista Premium Liquid developer(same as Clayton's F76+) from Freestyle and plan on using it with mainly Arista EDU Ultra 200 and Fuji Acros, both in 120. I needed a store-bought developer to keep on hand for use when my grandkids come over or when I run out of certain chems and need a quick developer. The only other store-bought developer I have is a half bottle of original Rodinal. Tells you how much developer I buy. All my other developers (fx37, Pyrocat-MC, Peceptol/Microdol clone, d-23) are homemade. I've heard good things about Clayton's F76+/Arista Premium Liquid and hope it works with the Arista EDU Ultra 200/Foma 200. Anyone tried the combination? JohnW

Thomas Bertilsson · Dec 12, 2013

I tried F76+ in its FA-1027 guise from Photographers' Formulary, but I used it with TMax 100 and FP4+. It's a wonderful developer that will give results reminiscent of D76, but the 'cleaner' negs with less base fog. As usual, there is no real magic to a film developer. It's a very good product.

JW PHOTO · Dec 12, 2013

Thomas Bertilsson said:
I tried F76+ in its FA-1027 guise from Photographers' Formulary, but I used it with TMax 100 and FP4+. It's a wonderful developer that will give results reminiscent of D76, but the 'cleaner' negs with less base fog. As usual, there is no real magic to a film developer. It's a very good product.

Thomas,
That's all I'm really looking for and I like the"clean" negative part as that's a plus. I remember my days 30+ years ago chasing that magic bullet in a college photography class 101. It involved Edwal's FG7 and the 15% sulfite addition. We were all suppose to use only HC110 dil. B, but I was going to cheat. I wanted good tonal range, sharpness and fine grain with Tri-X so I went with FG7 and the sulfite addition. Well, instead of just being happy with 15% I thought why not get even finer grain with 30% or more. I don't have to tell you the rest of the story. I ended up staying with just diluted FG7 after trying to get fine grain and anything that resembled a sharp negative, with the addition of the extra Sodium Sulfite. There are no magic bullets, but there are some that shoot a little flatter and straighter. JohnW

timor · Dec 12, 2013

There are just good techniques and not so good ones, John. There is no magic bullet, but there is a grain eating sodium sulfite.
I use FA1027 time to time, like Thomas. This is a very good developer for classic grain films. In higher dilution will work well with T-grain and it is better at that than D76.

JW PHOTO · Dec 12, 2013

timor said:
There are just good techniques and not so good ones, John. There is no magic bullet, but there is a grain eating sodium sulfite.
I use FA1027 time to time, like Thomas. This is a very good developer for classic grain films. In higher dilution will work well with T-grain and it is better at that than D76.

Yup, you are right! One of the reasons(actually two reasons) I went this way was it's suppose to be a little safer developer and I heard it is similar to Ilfords DDX, which I really liked. Some would probably say if you liked Ilford DDX then just buy that. Well, the difference in the price has a way of pushing me in the direction of Arista Premium liquid/Clayton F76+. Pocket change doesn't come easy nowadays.

timor · Dec 12, 2013

Try Tmax Dev. DDX is it's copy or very similar Tmax Dev is great for images of soft gradation. It might seems expensive, everything is related to the quality you want to achieve. I use it as one shot 1+7 or 1+9.

JW PHOTO · Dec 12, 2013

timor said:
Try Tmax Dev. DDX is it's copy or very similar Tmax Dev is great for images of soft gradation. It might seems expensive, everything is related to the quality you want to achieve. I use it as one shot 1+7 or 1+9.

timor
If the Arista Premium Liquid doesn't pan out I'll probably go to something like Xtol. I've used it before at 1:3 and had very good results with both TMY-2 and Acros, but did not have Arista EDU 200 Ultra at that time. HC-110 is another option and I have used that years past. I'm looking for something that might be a little safer for my grandkids than say Rodinal or Pyro type developers and still be bought commercially. I haven't used Tmax developer since it first came out many years ago, but maybe it's worth a try if all else fails. John

Christopher Walrath · Dec 12, 2013

The Arista is a good general purpose developer. I keep one bottle for contact sheets of negatives. But it has a relatively short shelf life. Two years sealed and I had to replace it.

timor · Dec 12, 2013

Safer chemically ? Or in use ?

Thomas Bertilsson · Dec 12, 2013

Christopher Walrath said:
The Arista is a good general purpose developer. I keep one bottle for contact sheets of negatives. But it has a relatively short shelf life. Two years sealed and I had to replace it.

Are you talking about the print developer, Chris?

Christopher Walrath · Dec 12, 2013

Yes, the print developer. It was stored with minor variations in temp. But humidity was always controlled.

JW PHOTO · Dec 12, 2013

timor said:
Safer chemically ? Or in use ?

timor,
Chemically! I don't want my grandkids messing with stuff that's too potent. Right now they use my darkroom with me, but I'd like to get them setup to at least do their own negative processing at home. Then they could come here and we could print. The kiddies range from 11yrs to 18yrs old and there are eight of the little buggers. Of course they are not all interested, but four of them I can see have a smidgen of interest. I thought they might just get "turned on" just a little more if they could at least do some of this on their own instead of under grandpa's wing. Plus, that's how you learn. JohnW

timor · Dec 12, 2013

Wow ! Keep them interested until they will understand the difference between film and digital.
What do you think about mixing for them some Stoeckler. As safe as it gets, very simple to use and cheap.

JW PHOTO · Dec 12, 2013

timor said:
Wow ! Keep them interested until they will understand the difference between film and digital.
What do you think about mixing for them some Stoeckler. As safe as it gets, very simple to use and cheap.

Well, that thought has crossed my mind, but it would more than likely be D23 and maybe the two bath version. The reason I'm thinking two bath is because of their cameras. I bought ten Pentax IQZoom 90WR that once belonged to the State of Washington and gave each one of them a camera. I know it's not 100% manual, but it does have enough options for them if they want to learn more. Plus, they can drop them in the water with no ill effects. Two bath would help with their exposures I think. We'll see! I just don't want them getting hurt 'cause I'd never hear the end of it from their folks or especially from granny. Johnw

timor · Dec 12, 2013

D23 two bath version and Stoeckler: what's the difference ? Automatic development system with automatic exposure system should give very good results for kids. Just teach them proper action with the trigger, so camera has a time to set everything for the shot. This Pentax is a perfect camera with great lens and light meter. Kids can learn many things with it and have always very printable negatives. This will increase the "fun" portion. You and I, we know, that for proper operating of fully manual camera some knowledge and understanding is needed. This could be introduced along the way and gradually. I don't see, how the kids could be hurt with this activities, but there is always a possibilities that they may try to club each other with the cameras, but that would be not the photography fault I guess.

JW PHOTO · Dec 12, 2013

timor said:
D23 two bath version and Stoeckler: what's the difference ? Automatic development system with automatic exposure system should give very good results for kids. Just teach them proper action with the trigger, so camera has a time to set everything for the shot. This Pentax is a perfect camera with great lens and light meter. Kids can learn many things with it and have always very printable negatives. This will increase the "fun" portion. You and I, we know, that for proper operating of fully manual camera some knowledge and understanding is needed. This could be introduced along the way and gradually. I don't see, how the kids could be hurt with this activities, but there is always a possibilities that they may try to club each other with the cameras, but that would be not the photography fault I guess.

timor,
When they were younger they might have used the Pentax cameras for a club, but they are all pretty civil now. Yes, there is not much difference between Stoecklers and D23 either one would be good and they have to drink it to hurt themselves. I also thought about E76, but really still would like a developer that they could buy. Later I could show them how to make their own. I'm trying to keep this uncomplicated for them in the beginning so as not to overwhelm and confuse. Thus the Pentax cameras and simple developer. I do know the more they can do on their own the better chance I have of getting them connected to "real" photography. All they do now is run around with their cell phones snapping pictures. I shouldn't talk, because my wife just bought me a Samsung Galaxy Note III and it's got a 13mp camera and I don't even want to say here how cool that is 'cause this isn't the place for that. But it's darn cool! Don't tell my grandkids. JohnW

timor · Dec 12, 2013

Do they have own darkrooms ?

JW PHOTO · Dec 12, 2013

timor said:
Do they have own darkrooms ?

No darkrooms other then a closet or two. I figure they could use a closet to load or I have three changing bags. I would get them some Paterson tanks with the "cheater reels" so it would be easier for them. I don't want them using my Hewes reels. They can develop and dry at home and when they come for a visit they can use my darkroom. None of them live more than 15 miles away so we see each other often. I also have many and I'm not kidding when I say many 120 roll film folding and rigid cameras when they are ready to move up. I sure would like to be able to pass my really good cameras and gear off to a family member instead of my wife dumping it after I pass on. Maybe I'm dreaming! The only way we are going to keep film alive for any length of time is to get some new blood hook on film. I'm trying! JohnW

timor · Dec 13, 2013

The way I would see it two bath development under your eye is the way to start. Even such a camera like this Pentax is not foolproof and too quick triggering may cause under exposure. I've seen that. Once they know how to take pictures, basics of development and how looks printable negative they may graduate to more demanding developers, where time and temperature control is more demanding. Knowing, how looks good neg and knowing, that the camera is working OK they may correct own developing mistakes and eventually graduate to the next step: understanding the exposure and move to more manual equipment. With 120 I would wait until there is more experience with loading the reels. Even "cheaters reels" are not easy to load with 120, maybe even harder, than Hewes reels. Off course black out closet is 1000 times better, than changing bag.

Roger Cole · Dec 13, 2013

Heck, that's old enough I not to worry about it I'd think. That's old enough (well maybe not the 11 year old, but 13+) to be shown how to handle pyro safely and turned loose.

Of course I'm biased. I was messing with stuff more potent than that, and going squirrel hunting alone by age 13. It was a bit of a different world then I suppose and the fact I'm here now means I'm a self-selected sample.

I do understand erring on the side of chemical safety but not necessarily in trying to make the process foolproof. Mistakes are how we learn. In my experience kids are way more capable than we usually give them credit for, if allowed some leeway to show it.

And thanks for keeping it alive! Awesome stuff, BTW.

wblynch · Dec 13, 2013

I have used the Clayton F-76+ with Fomapan and like it a lot. I tried Ilfosol-3 before that and couldn't stand it.

Right now I'm using HC-110, dilution H with Fomapan and like that too. But not as much as the F-76+

JW PHOTO · Dec 13, 2013

Been gone all day getting a dog/puppy for my 83yr old mommy and haven't checked back here until now. Bill, I like what I hear and can't wait to give it a try. I checked my email and got a invoice/shipping confirmation from Freestyle so it won't be long now. I've done a ton of searching and there's not a wealth of information about F76+, but the one thing I did find common about it is that no one said anything bad about F76+. Some folks said it's fantastic, some said it's very good, same as D76, no better than..........................., but no one said it was lousy. Might just turn out better then I expected? We'll see I guess. JohnW

Trask · Dec 14, 2013

Thomas Bertilsson said:
I tried F76+ in its FA-1027 guise from Photographers' Formulary

I've read other, prior comments that some think F76+ and FA-1027 are the same developer. What evidence does anyone have that that suggestion is correct? Just wondering, because I've been tempted to try FA-1027. I have tried F76+ and wasn't knocked out.

timor · Dec 14, 2013

JW PHOTO said:
but the one thing I did find common about it is that no one said anything bad about F76+.

John, I don't know, if you met Tom Abrahamsson. He is very well known on Rangefinder Forum and an avid experimenter.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116836
Yeah... something bad about F76, but also easily countered by proper and simple action.

Thomas Bertilsson · Dec 14, 2013

Trask said:
I've read other, prior comments that some think F76+ and FA-1027 are the same developer. What evidence does anyone have that that suggestion is correct? Just wondering, because I've been tempted to try FA-1027. I have tried F76+ and wasn't knocked out.

An acquaintance sent Clayton an email and asked to confirm, and they did.

No film developer is going to 'knock you out'. Remember, the neg is only an intermediary. I have prints from negs made with that developer, and I have nothing but good experience to tell, after i used it for a while and did the usual tweaking.

I guess I'm the kind of guy that likes to claim that the end results are 95% about skill and 5% about materials.

But one man's ceiling is another man's floor. You're not wrong and I'm not necessarily right. Hope you found something else that works well.

Clayton F76+ and Arista Premium Liquid developer

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