Classic water spots, impossible to clear.

[fotoobscura]

I have what I believe are permanent <something> spots on recently developed negatives in ideal soup (HP5 and ID11). They look like water, streak like water (and soap in some cases), and will not come off.

My development process for this roll of HP5+ @400

ID-11 mixed/distilled, clean container (ID-11 is good from other rolls so not focusing too much on developer)

Mfr. develop, fix 3m with ultra-concentrated non hardening fix (perhaps 1:2) wash 10M running tap water, soak a minute or so in PF, agitate, hang.

This is essentially the same process I've done for 20 years minus the last-minute "oops I forgot I'm out of fixer".

Since then I've tried to clear it by re-washing the film (this time washing using a PUR filter) and creating a fresh batch of PF in case the last batch (which successfully cleared one roll previously) went bad overnight or, something.

Hang to dry, still spots and streaks. Less streaks, less spots, but still there.

Get frustrated. Dump PF entirely and thoroughly clean gallon plastic jug. Put aside and make a small concentrate of Perma Wash (1:3). Re-wash film in "PUR" water and soak in Perma Wash for a minute or two. Hang the roll.

This time as I scratch my head staring at the negatives I can see the Perma Wash is holding water tension so that's no good. I get out my 8x Mamiya and I can see the stains still there.

Pour freshly mixed PF onto the hanging reel and dip my hands into a bath of PF trying to manually the clear streaks...over and over and over again...loupe still shows streaks.

No signs of silver floaters on negative.

Let film dry, still in hell.

Any thoughts? One thought I have is that I didn't fully clear the film during fix (seems unlikely) and somehow residual soap/pf got onto the negative ..

I have a bad feeling these spots have somehow "fixed" themselves onto the negative.

I didn't want to mention this because it may derail something obvious, but, I just got a brand new water heater yesterday and this was my first roll since...

Just sayin'

Thanks!

 

[JHannon]

I had something similar happen when I used a tank/reel that was not fully dry. Water got on the dry emulsion (before development) and once it does, it causes streaks and spots that are impossible to remove.

 

[Saganich]

Just the other day I was wondering about that when in a rush I almost used a wet tank and reels but I didn't having a vague recollection that somehow that was a no no.

 

[Poohblah]

I had something similar happen when I used a tank/reel that was not fully dry. Water got on the dry emulsion (before development) and once it does, it causes streaks and spots that are impossible to remove.

So, you recommend no pre-soak? I have the same issue as the OP, but I doubt it's because of that...

 

[fotoobscura]

Case closed.

Initially contaminated PF with Fixer caused all of this.

Interestingly the stains only occur on the base when these two chemicals are accidentally mixed.

And they are a bitch to remove.

 

[JHannon]

So, you recommend no pre-soak? I have the same issue as the OP, but I doubt it's because of that...

The pre-soak is no problem if you wet all the film (fill the tank).

It is when you do not fully dry the tank/reels and water runs on the film in small streaks or spots.

Sometimes I just load a tank and then develop it later. I guess the water drops/streaks causes density changes and seem to be permanent.

I really make sure everything is fully dry now....

 

[Vaughn]

Sometimes I just load a tank and then develop it later. I guess the water drops/streaks causes density changes and seem to be permanent.

I believe the wet areas on the film allow the developer to start developing quicker...the developer can enter the emulsion faster when the emulsion is wet.

Vaughn

 

[JBrunner]

I have more reels than tanks. Its easy to wipe a tank dry, but reels are another matter, so if I'm doing a lot of developing I wash the reels and put them on a rack to dry, wash and wipe out the tank, and use a "new" dry reels to carry on while the washed reels are drying.